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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BigChocFrenzy · 10/10/2019 22:49

Well done on your FD, blodyn
Sounds like you have adapted to fasting

Sorry you are having such a tough time with other things, mumm 💐

Take a break from FDs for a week or two, if you need to
You could aim for daily 12:12, i.e. eat within a window of 12 hours or shorter, which is good for health

That's good you are feeding your body healthy food, to support it at this stressful time

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 11/10/2019 08:00

Wishing you well mumm. Well done blodyn.

NFD here, and another sodding toddler birthday party - how are others doing?

aberjenagain · 11/10/2019 08:36

Checking for FD2. Think this one is going to be a struggle - already came v close to sacking it off and going for a sausage bap and a latte.

I can have it tomorrow. I can have it tomorrow. I can have it tomorrow.

mumm Flowers Hope next week is infinitely better for you

blodyn well done on your fd

mrd are you fasting today too?

Welcome emcla

hummus I think we could do with a ‘use up the freezer’ sesh here too...

OohMrDarcy · 11/10/2019 09:11

Morning all

Friday FD here I come - got a pre made chilli portion out of the freezer for my dinner, yum! I do love my slow cooker and the ability to batch cook for days like this!

Tiler back to finish (hopefully?!) today and other guy is coming at some point to put appliances back .... so hallway and lounge will be more accessible at least. Over the weekend I'll be able to move other stuff back in and have a rearrange.

Welcome back emcla

well done on the FD blodym

sorry to hear you're having a stressful time mumm

Hummus enjoy the birthday party Wink

Aber - a sausage bap and a latte are definitely better enjoyed at the weekend guilt free Grin

EssentialHummus · 11/10/2019 09:14

Good luck today aber, mrd.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/10/2019 10:12

Good luck with your FD, aber, MrD
< "you can have it tomorrow" Smile >

and on surviving another toddler riot, hummus

I've been tempted to get a slow cooker, MrD for stews & tagines
However, I've heard on MN that food can turn to mush, taste oily, or otherwise don't turn out well.
What's your secret ? You have an equation for the right time / amount of liquid / spices to add ?

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OohMrDarcy · 11/10/2019 11:29

its generally about using less liquid in my experience Bigchoc - or knowing how to thicken it up if you have too much (cornflour & water mix)... I know many people that struggle with mince in slow cooker too - I have the opposite experience and find it easier! I buy bags of frozen mince (individually frozen to not a block of mince you have to break up)... when using that I just make sure I don't do any stirring until the mince is cooked - sometimes I bung it on high for 2 hours to help that bit along.

I think the people that struggle with slow cookers are generally trying to cook using their normal methods / recipes etc but in the slow cooker - and it is different. For any stews etc I use about 3/4 the liquid of a normal recipe, sometimes less.

Chopped tomatoes going in often means I don't really need extra liquid at all. If you want to get one I'm happy to share tips as you go! Oh on time I completely wing it really - anything stew / chilli / curry like just goes in all day - on high if I don't remember until lunchtime but generally the longer the better. Herbs and spices I tend to use a little more than I normally would as lots of the flavours blend into each other so I like to make sure I can taste them if that makes sense, bit of trial and error really !

BigChocFrenzy · 11/10/2019 12:18

Thanks, MrD

When I retire in January, I'll have a lot of time when I'm not gyming or Rhine-walking,
so I was thinking of doing a bit more cooking, um any cooking at all ! - atm I usually eat lunch & dinner out, Blush such nice restaurants near where I live and near work

However, I fancy an occasional lamb tagine or butternut & chorizo stew, i.e. some Middle East food, which isn't on the menu here
I have little patience to stand over food, stirring, so a slow cooker is maybe a possibility for a really lazy woman ?

OP posts:
mummTum · 11/10/2019 12:29

Thanks everyone for kind words Flowers
Good luck fasting today everyone who is and hope everyone has a lovely weekend Smile

OohMrDarcy · 11/10/2019 12:42

you sound like my kind of woman big choc - that is definitely the benefit if you ask me... bung it all in - depending on what it is give it a stir once or twice... come home in the evening and smells / tastes delicious - in fact the coming home to lovely smells is possibly the main benefit to me Grin

OohMrDarcy · 11/10/2019 16:16

Kitchen closed on 488 here and feeling nicely full.

aberjenagain · 11/10/2019 18:16

All done here too on 526. Sadly not feeling nicely full, but I can enjoy tomorrow’s bacon bap guilt-free Smile

emcla · 11/10/2019 18:34

All done here too. Smoked salmon , lettuce , 2 cherry toms and 1 oatcake. Tea and coffee during the day with skimmed milk and a few pints of warm water. Went for a walk 6.7k at lunchtime and ran part of it to do it in an hour.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/10/2019 18:40

I hope you have a lovely relaxing WE, mumm
Try to catch up on sleep; that helps stress

Well done on your FDs, MrD, aber

You are persuading me, MrD
I'll wait until my new wood floor is done first though, around December, as kitchen (& most rooms) will have to be emptied for the work (AAAAAARGH)

Enjoy your bacon bap tomorrow, aber
check you've got ketchup in the frig - not the same without it Grin

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BigChocFrenzy · 11/10/2019 18:40

Well done, emcla
and excellent exercise

OP posts:
emcla · 11/10/2019 18:51

Thanks bigchoc. Thinking of skipping breakfast tomorrow. I’ve noticed that I feel hungrier if I have breakfast but if I skip it I don’t miss it. I am busy in the morning so water and coffee will be fine. My usual breakfast if porridge seeds pear or banana. Then I go to work and want a scone. Will see how I go tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/10/2019 20:02

emcla Many folk find that breakfast starts the hunger pangs and they do better waiting until lunchtime.
Many of us just have black coffee for breakfast, NFDs too, especially before morning training.

It's surprising how quickly you get used to that

OP posts:
emcla · 11/10/2019 20:31

Not sure I can hack black coffee. I have skimmed milk done in the aerochino/ frother thing.

Teacakeandalatte · 11/10/2019 22:25

Hi all I thought I wasn't going to manage any fasts this week as I had it in my head I had to do 2 or it wasn't worth starting but it had got till friday and i didnt think i could do it at the weekend so nearly gave up. Then I thought even 1 fast would be good healthwise as I said I was going to concentrate on health not weight loss so I gave it a go today. I had another setback when I realised I had planned a high calorie dinner of chicken Kiev and really wanted to have it so I thought I would just have my dinner and let the calories be a bit higher but I also didn't factor in the amount of milk I have been having in my coffee so I have ended up having about 1000 calories. So not the greatest start but I am quite pleased I managed to do the one meal only and I can easily reduce the amount of milk in my coffee so I shall try to do better next time.

aberjenagain · 12/10/2019 06:49

bcf I’m more a sweet chilli sauce person Grin

Well done on your fd too emcla

OohMrDarcy · 12/10/2019 07:19

Well done on the FDs emcla and aber

And the mini teacake, dont worry at all - it's a good starting point and still helpful for health.

Weighed in this morning at 14st 2lb which gives me a loss of 1.4lb this week and brings my total loss to 3st 10.4lb

Creeping beer closer to the next goal of hitting 13st something, and then of 4st lost Grin

Anyone else weighing in today?

emcla · 12/10/2019 08:09

Hi everyone. Oohmr I’m not weighing in today. Planning a fd on Monday with a weight in on Tuesday. Skipping breakfast today and having a late lunch of a substantial chicken salad with a bean salad. Well done on your loss.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/10/2019 08:50

Congratulations on your SV, MrD
Nearly 4 stone loss is fab
You'll be looking forward to the 13 stone somethings

That's good you have made a start, teacake
When starting 5:2, planning makes life much easier:
I recommend this weekend that you decide which 2 days you will fast next week
and then plan the menus in advance, checking you have all you need ready

SInce you are fasting for health:
On NFDs, have at least 2 meals, as research has shown that regularly having nearly all your TDEE in one meal increases the risk of CVD
On FDs one meal is fine, because it is only 500 cals (or 800 cals if you prefer the FD800 system)

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 12/10/2019 16:49

Good luck for Tuesday emcla

Thanks bigchoc, felt very svelte when out and about today 🤣

BigChocFrenzy · 12/10/2019 18:03

Woohoo, MrD That's a svelte NSV
Feeling good is what it's all about 🤛🏼🤛🏼

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