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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
OohMrDarcy · 05/10/2019 09:57

Morning all

STS so far this week. Will check again tomorrow just in case as I occasionally hit the SV day 2 after second fast. But if no change I'm not too worried, managing to keep fasting and not gaining / dissolving into a screaming puddle this week is a massive win for me so I'll take the NSV either way Smile

blodynmawr · 05/10/2019 10:12

Hi all
Fell off this thread in June... we too have been having bathroom works over the summer (totally worth it though as it's now fab!) and holidays got in the way of the usual routine....
Anyway, I put on 7lb over July/Aug but have been back on plan since September and lost 4.5lbs, so almost back to the 2st loss mark. I'm aiming for another stone off by Christmas....
This week was quite a few pounds off but I am peri-menopausal which i think makes the loss rate quite erratic....
Great to be back Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 05/10/2019 11:07

MrD You'd be doing well to sts with builders in half the house

Don't worry if tomorrow is also sts, because you know that noone loses every week
Epecially after having lost so much already, your body will have intervals in which things slow things down, so it can get used to its smaller size

Welcome back, Blodwyn
That your bathroom was completed in the end can reassure MrD that the chaos will be all worth it

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/10/2019 13:56

Anyone fasting today ? Hummus ?

Monsoon here
but I waded out to the gym and I've just enjoyed the monthly free buffet here

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 06/10/2019 14:51

Tomorrow for me bigchoc - we’re in the thick of weekend birthday parties for toddlers, so my Sunday fasts have gone off-kilter. Well done on the gym - we have some sun here so I think I’ll head out to the garden later for some weeding and fresh air.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/10/2019 15:06

"we’re in the thick of weekend birthday parties for toddlers"
< shudders > BrewGrin

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 06/10/2019 15:08

This morning I literally commando crawled across a ball pit in a leisure centre Envy

Whattodowithaminute · 06/10/2019 17:07

Had planned Monday and Thursday this week but have effectively done b2b this weekend with a stomach upset... good luck weekend fasters...

BigChocFrenzy · 06/10/2019 18:37

Hummus You crawled commando Shock
< applies brain bleach to thread Grin >

Sorry to hear about that, What

Stomach Upset
Once all symptoms have gone, leave at least 5 days before you try an FD:
your gut may still be healing and fasting too soon can upset it again

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 06/10/2019 20:27

Thanks for the brain bleach bigchoc, hummus you are a braver woman than I!

Planning Tuesday / Friday fasts this week at the moment here

Fillybuster · 07/10/2019 07:17

Oh dear. Despite my previous post being so full of success and determination something appears to have gone very wrong this weekend. Scales at 10.1.8

I knew I had made a few less than perfect choices, but can’t understand how I’ve gained 5lbs in 2 days.

2 days of intense conference today and tomorrow, so not even sure I can fit in a FD ahead of the big on Tuesday night / Wednesday that Hummus mentioned (no water either...)

Damn Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 07/10/2019 08:17

Don't worry, filly
That's probably mostly undigested food, water retention due to excess carbs; possibly hormonal swings

A couple of days sensible eating and a couple of good poops should get rid of some, then your FD may well get rid of the rest.

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 07/10/2019 09:10

Gah, filly! It happens. As long as it doesn't turn into (as I'm sometimes prone to) "fuck it, may as well just eat and eat now" I think you'll be back on track soon. Maybe a Friday FD if things are full-on with work early in the week.

FD today here, and then Yom Kippur on Tues eve-Weds eve (much harder as no water!).

Fillybuster · 07/10/2019 10:12

Thanks BCF & Hummus, really appreciate the pep talk and support. Going to aim for a MFD today, Yom Kippur tomorrow night & Wednesday and then maybe a MFD again on Friday. Gah...so annoying!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/10/2019 11:13

Good luck, Hummus and any other Monday fasters

I'm just sitting for a while after my flu jab
They do it at work, very handy
Reminder to anyone who wants the jab - don't delay

OP posts:
mummTum · 07/10/2019 19:45

I was meant to fast today and did quite well just just cracked and eaten 2 bloody biscuits. It’s been a long day and I’ve got another few hours of work to do before bed and... no excuses! I suppose I’ll have to do another day now!

EssentialHummus · 07/10/2019 20:56

Oops, forgot to check back in! Coffees here there and everywhere today, then a lunch of stir-fried pak choi, broccoli and garlic with soy sauce, and soup for dinner.

It happens mumm, pick up and start again next time. See if you can set things up next time to make it easier (dinner ready / sparkling water available / veg sticks available / no biscuits in house ?)

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2019 00:29

Well done, Hummus

mumm I suggest you mfp the biscuits
Unless they are giant cookies, they are probably less than 200 cals

If your total including them is under 800, then I wouldn't do another FD
Just move on and do better on the next scheduled FD

For future FDs, like Hummus, I recommend you remove junk from the house, or lock it away somewhere
and prep emergency raw carrot / celery / cucumber - no dip or sauce - just in case
A mug of Bovril (10 cals) can hit the spot if you have work in the evening

OP posts:
mummTum · 08/10/2019 06:09

Thanks hummus and bigchoc. So with the blasted biscuits I finished at about 650. Not toooo bad I suppose. They have now gone and will not be replaced!
Thanks for tips.
Good luck to any fasters today.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2019 08:39

To filly, Hummus and anyone else marking Yom Kippur:
I wish you a comfortable and peaceful fast.
💐

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2019 09:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2019 09:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EssentialHummus · 08/10/2019 10:00

Thanks bigchoc - it is mainly cooking for me today (and people who are more religious than me will tend to do a 24 hour slow cooker number that cooks from this evening to tomorrow evening!), then a meal in the evening, and a fast until tomorrow evening. Not being very religious I am mainly concerned about the lack of coffee tomorrow morning!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2019 10:33

That's brilliant that someone else will prepare delicious food, Hummus
Especially if you are elsewhere and can't smell it cooking throughout the fast Grin

Another very rainy day here and I had no enthusiasm to go out to work, so I'm having a flexiday off Smile
V lucky to be able to do this:
In my last few months before retirement, I'm v pt and I've shed all my projects, so I'm really more of an occasional consultant now

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 08/10/2019 20:43

Had a busy couple of days but FD complete on 400

Wanted to check in still!