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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
mummTum · 02/10/2019 20:41

Finished on around 430 cals!
Lunch: green veggie soup and rice cakes
Dinner: cod with olives and tomatoes and brocoli
Was much easier than Monday; think it’s because I’m not at work.
Now I’m off to do some prep for work tomorrow and go to bed dreaming of the food I can eat! Especially after the mention of those cakes, love courgettes so will give that one a try Smile
Well done everyone and good luck to tomorrow’s fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2019 22:32

Well done, 43, mumm

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 03/10/2019 07:17

Checking in for a FD, NSV on my belt this morning too, just the motivation I needed for today...

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/10/2019 07:23

Well done mumm
Fantastic nsv what Smile

Nfd today, no clue what the plans are after work but will involve a few glasses of wine (friend splitting with arsehole husband (yay) but it's their wedding anniversary today so gonna be upset) and some food somewhere, will try and be mindful!!
Fd planned for tomorrow, not ideal after a few drinks the night before but I'll have to make it work.

Have a good day everyone

BigChocFrenzy · 03/10/2019 08:07

Well done on your belt NSV, what

43 There are some delic low cal alcohol-free wines too
I love a white one that is only 24 cals /100 ml, so only 180 cals per 0.75l bottle

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 03/10/2019 09:28

Morning all

Lots of lovely SV / NSV going on - well done all!

NFD here today, got sausage casserole in the slow cooker for tonight. Last couple of days of hell to get through (all being well) before the bathroom should be finished. Kitchen still in chaos as the floor is being tiled next week too... It will all be worth it when finished!

aberjenagain · 03/10/2019 10:25

Down another 1.4 lb, putting me bang on 10 1/2 stone SmileSmile

Congrats what

43 will keep you posted on the cake, think the icing may be an acquired taste... Flowers for your friend

The end is in sight mrd - phew!

OohMrDarcy · 03/10/2019 11:24

on a roll there Aber - well done!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/10/2019 12:39

Congratulations on your SV, aber

You'll very soon have a lovely new bathroom & kitchen, MrD
Your suffering will be worth it
Let us know when it's all done and we'll raise a cheer too Grin

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 03/10/2019 21:16

mrd we did some household renovations last year and it’s worth it in the end so hold tight!

Closing at about 500 today; had a later lunch which worked well and managed to get through the kids dinner time much more comfortably-normally I think I have an extra meal at 5pm on their leftovers...Blush

Fillybuster · 03/10/2019 22:20

Sorry for such a poor pp- work has been crazy and I was over a week behind on the thread! Finally caught up - phew! Grin

Just finished a b2b, with a boxercise class for good measure. Hope to be below 9.12 tomorrow but not going to hold my breath - it’s going to take a while to lose the last 5lbs. V small NSV to share: 2 people at the gym and DH have all commented on improved body shape/loss over the past week Grin

Bwydda,huge congrats on your loss...wow!!! 11lbs is such an achievement! StarFlowers And the not snacking is definitely another SV - as is sticking to this woe. I think you’re spot on that because there’s no such thing as a failed fast, just a delayed one, it also means you can’t “be naughty” or “break the rules” so you end up not sabotaging this WOE the way that it’s easy to do on a diet. And well done on the b2b this week too!

How’s the bathroom coming along MrD? And the tickly cold? It will be so worth it when it’s finished...just hang on in there!Flowers And here’s some calorie free Gin for the meantime!

43 it sounds as though you are cracking on with those MFDs. Are you going to stick with that on a permanent basis or was it just ahead of the weekend event? Which do you find better? Am super impressed by your SV too : good to see those losses rolling in!

Autumn, I don’t exactly count cals on NFDs but I did find that I had to use MFP for a few weeks on my NFDs to log absolutely everything before I was able to identity what wasn’t quite working for me. Nowadays I’m back to not counting but that’s because I’ve cracked a few things that were holding me back. And to be fair, the less you have to lose the harder it can be. I’ve got about 5lbs to go and so I know that one or two slightly dodgy NFDs can make quite a big difference in terms of slowing down loss at this stage. Anyway, good luck Smile

Iceni I’m so so so glad to hear the scan was oI - I was thinking of you all day on Thursday last week - but urgh about your ankle! Lots of ice & try to rest it. Can you get an ankle support?

Hummus, BigChoc, Sydney - how are you guys doing? Hope you’re over the dodgy tummy Hummus? Not much fun with a toddler in tow, I’m sure!

Welcome Dyrne - I’m also back after a long break

Aber, that’s a great milestone! This is the NT recipe which makes 2 loaf cakes and freezes really well www.nationaltrust.org.uk/montacute-house/recipes/lemon-courgette-cake and this is the Nigella version (which has been such a hit I’ve had to make it twice in the past 2 weeks!) www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/lifestyle/countrylife/15530745.nigellas-courgette-cake-is-simply-irresistible/ although I don’t bother with nuts on top! Apart from a few beans and tomatoes our veg is pretty much done for the year, unless the broccoli finally decides to do something other than grow lots of leaves so I think the next batch might be with bought courgettes!

Right, off to walk the dog and get to bed. Good luck to all the Friday fasters Smile

VanGoghsDog · 04/10/2019 00:44

Well, having had no fasts last week due to a cold (though loss of appetite meant at least three days were v low cal anyway), I managed one today.

Sandwich thin with ham at three, then baked lemon sole, boiled potatoes, steamed veg for dinner, followed by banana.
It'll only be that one this week though.
Back on it next week.

OohMrDarcy · 04/10/2019 07:28

Morning all

Friday FD here we go, who's with me?

It is also B day in my house... the day that fingers crossed my bathroom should be put back together! Grin 🤞🏻 ... assuming all that happens ok then I get a few days break then kitchen floor being tiled end of next week.

Well done to all the Thursday fasters, I shall be keeping my fingers crossed for some lovely SVs for you all!

EssentialHummus · 04/10/2019 07:52

Hi Filly, well done on the b2b! Well done vangogh, what.

All back to normal here - I ended up effectively fasting Mon and Tues, but simply because I had no appetite at all. Next FDs will either be Sun/Mon or Mon/Tues. And hopefully the batteries for my scales will turn up soon.

A NSV in that I pulled out a jumper that I bought rather optimistically last year and found that this year it fits and is flattering, and I have bought skinny jeans from Zara in a size 12 and found that they fit well, so very happy with that.

Good luck mrd, and I hope you have your loo back soon!

Whattodowithaminute · 04/10/2019 08:26

SV this morning-down to 12st 5.8 from a start point of 12st 13; so motivating-have a big birthday in 6 weeks so keen to be sub 12st by then which is realistic I think...

Waitingforadulthood · 04/10/2019 09:02

Sorry to hear you w been unwell Van Gogh - well down for a single fd, I think that it's important to care for ourselves when we're unwell and you don't need to worry about this week at all.

I hope the bathroom is finished for you mrdarcy- I'm always on the other side of it and you've really made me consider our impact on customers whilst we're there

Great nsv hummus and sv what.

Good luck all Friday tasters

Teacakeandalatte · 04/10/2019 09:37

Hi guys you may remember I posted a few threads back saying I was starting up 5:2 after some dieting struggles and unfortunately I didn't do well at that attempt either. 5:2 makes so much sense to me, I really want to make it work and I can generally stick to my fast days. Its the NFDs I struggle with as my normal diet is terrible, mostly grazing on toast and cake with the odd binge. I feel like this is due to a bad relationship with food after previous strict diets and some emotional issues.The minute I try to restrict or be healthier now I find myself rebelling or feeling confused about what to do (eg I decide 100% to start up low carb then I will read a lot of stuff about wholegrains or whatever and start to question low carb, and end up going back to my toast. I think its my brain screwing with me to get back to the comfort eating but I can't seem to stop doing this kind of self sabotaging stuff.
The thing is I know it would be good to fast even if I did eat badly on other days as it would help counteract the bad food choices healthwise and at least I might maintain my weight rather than gaining as I am at the moment. I would struggle with this as I am a bit all or nothing and would want to see weight loss if I am dieting. But maybe this would be a good idea to get out of the all or nothing dieting mindset and make it a long term change based on health.

Fillybuster · 04/10/2019 10:15

Great results Hummus and Whattodo - lovely to read some Friday morning SVs!

Hummus, you’re welcome to pop over and use my scales in the meantime (I don’t think I’m far from you!!). Mine said 9.11.2 this morning...so a very small “yay” from me Smile

Waitingforadulthood · 04/10/2019 11:28

Teaandcake- I have in the past been very similar to you and have an all
Or nothing approach. I started 5:2 for the health benefits, and focused on that initially because weight loss goals often leave me giving up, or deciding I'd rather be "happy" and eat etc etc. I don't log on weekends and eat what I like- which is a LOT. But what I've noticed, is that A- I'm losing weight consistently anyway (12 lbs in 6 weeks) . An B- my habits are changing, I'm not as hungry on nfd and have lost the urge to snack.

Even without weight loss the health benefits of fasting seem very grounded in good science and are pretty definitive. Even if you dont lose weight, you will be making a healthy choice by fasting.

Teacakeandalatte · 04/10/2019 14:54

Thanks Waiting thats really heartening I am feeling quite happy with the idea now.

EssentialHummus · 04/10/2019 15:03

Great SV filly! Tea like what I found over time that my body "reset" a bit - so even if I have a treat on NFDs I am much better at self-regulating. It did take time to get them but is a wonderful benefit.

I've just realised that next Tues-Weds is our annual religious fast day (I'm Jewish), AKA the 364:1 diet Grin so I'll need to have a think about single separate FD - possibly Monday - so that I'm ready for that. I'm not very religious but it's something I observe each year.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2019 16:32

Well done on your FD and on your SV, What
11 stone something for your birthday looks very doable

Well done on your FD too, VanGogh
Good to hear you are fit again

Congratulations on your jumper & jeans NSV, Hummus

See how you go on 5:2, tea
I suggest you give yourself a good long time to reset habits without stress,
so don't think about weighing or weight loss for the next couple of months

What often helps reset is if you gently try to shorten your eating window to 12 hours, e.g. only eat between 8am to 8pm

I also recommend you work on changing just 1 habit to something healthier
So, work on having say 4 meals a day - even if a meal is just masses of toast - but with no snacks or grazing between
If this is really tough, then change your snacks between meals to carrots / cucumber / raw celery / other raw veg - BUT no fruit, no dip, no sauce

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2019 16:34

Well done on your SV too, filly

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 04/10/2019 17:59

Kitchen closed on 468.

Am knackered and have a headache. Bathroom not completely finished but enough that I can use it in the morning! Electrician coming tuesday to fit the lights etc and at some point the ceiling is being painted 🤯

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2019 20:28

Well done on your FD, MrD

Oooh, at least the bathroom is useable and after Tuesday evening should be perfect
Have an early night for your head

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