Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
aberjenagain · 01/10/2019 13:26

Thanks bcf - yep, erring on 500 today leaving 800 for tomorrow, but equally could do an NFD if I wake up ravenous! Sadly the gelato van is gone now until next summer 😭 But don’t feel too sorry for me - I made cake at the weekend and am just trying not to scoff the lot.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/10/2019 13:39

no I didn't mrd as I always get a skinny coffee and those machines don't do skinny milk (at least, none of the ones around here!)

mmmm, what cake did you make aber I love baking and eating cakes Grin

Dyrne · 01/10/2019 13:42

Thanks for the welcome, all, and good luck to those fasting today!

BigChocFrenzy you are absolutely right about me knowing exactly what I need to do, and that’s why it’s so frustrating when I let my mental health get in the way - I know 5:2 is a sustainable way of eating, and I don’t feel deprived - and I know that reaching for the sharer bag of chocolate is not a sensible decision; and yet I still did it; multiple times a day! Oh well, back on it now.

I’ve managed well today with a sensible lunch and have got dinner all planned out. I’m toying with the idea of doing 16:8 on my NFDs where I can; does anyone else do this? Or am I setting myself up for failure? I’m doing OK today but am also aware I’m at that enthusiastic point of my journey where i’m determined to stick with things at least at first!

Whattodowithaminute · 01/10/2019 14:02

NFD here but super hungry after yesterday’s FD... I want to eat everything in sight...

aberjenagain · 01/10/2019 14:27

43 it was this courgette lemon drizzle cake (using up the latest of the homegrown courgettes). ‘Tis delicious - really lemon-y

www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/food/recipes/a25915707/courgette-lemon-drizzle-cake/

aberjenagain · 01/10/2019 14:35

*last

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2019 15:51

Dyrne A shorter time window can help control eating,
but it can also increase the stress on your system and make it harder to continue

Reports also indicate that women are sometimes more sensitive to time window constraints than men;
hence many recommend 14:10 for women, instead of 16:8

Fasting experts like Mosely & Longo are now recommending - as part of a healthy lifestyle with minimum stress - a daily eating window of 12 hours
e.g. start eating at or after 8am and finish your last meal by 8pm

So, I recommend you start with this and see how you go
Some days you could ease into 14:10 and have a 10-hour window, but maybe not the days before or after an FD
AND only if you find this easy to do

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2019 15:52

So try daily 12:12 for say 3 weeks, then review before continuing

OP posts:
Dyrne · 01/10/2019 16:27

Thanks, that makes sense and is great advice! I’ll start at 12:12 on NFDs and adjust from there depending on how i’m coping!

Waitingforadulthood · 01/10/2019 17:11

Checking in- still haven't eaten yet, and am making a mostly vegetable shepherds pie for dinner (448 cals), and later this evening will have spiced burratta and roasted grapes (274). Then kitchen is closed. Well done all :)

OohMrDarcy · 01/10/2019 19:17

Kitchen closed on somewhere between 5-600

This building worl is driving me batty now... counting down and just waiting for it to be finished! My lovely friend will be relieved too I'm sure as I just keep turning up for showers Grin

Dyrne- I generally 16-8 on NFD, but only when it works for me, if I wake up particularly hungry I'll have a breakfast or brunch. If not I'll stick to lunch and dinner

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2019 21:37

well done, MrD, Waiting

OP posts:
mummTum · 01/10/2019 22:02

Well done everyone! My nfd started off really well but been a bit naughty this evening. Planning on fasting tomorrow but maybe Thursday. Have been trying to go 12 hours over night without eating so reassuring to read that it’s a good idea 😊

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2019 00:33

That's good you are trying 12:12, mumm

OP posts:
Waitingforadulthood · 02/10/2019 07:23

Nfd here and weigh in - 0.5 lb down, 0.5 inch from my waist and 0.9 inch from my hips. Feeling great Grin

Good luck on your fast days everyone- it's worth it Thanks

mummTum · 02/10/2019 08:18

Well done waiting!
Nfd here, starting ok...
Good luck Wednesday fasters!

OohMrDarcy · 02/10/2019 09:06

Congrats on the SV waiting!

NFD for me today. Good luck to any fasters

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/10/2019 12:52

ooh that looks lovely aber

dyrne I also go 16:8 (or thereabouts) even on FDs, I try not to eat anything until lunch time

Excellent SV waiting

FD here today and I'm hungry, not helped by the fact that there are loads of biscuits in the office! Doing my best to ignore. I am out for dinner and a few drinks after work tomorrow so reminding myself of that fact is helping Grin

Fillybuster · 02/10/2019 14:46

Late check in for my first FD in nearly 2 weeks - not my fault, but the combo of D&V bug and a week of work travel followed by several days of religious festivals hasn’t been great!

That said, the scales have held pretty steady over the past 2 weeks despite occasional slip ups. Regular gym/shred sessions have helped both physically and in keeping me (mostly) mindful of what I’m trying to achieve, although all my baking has counter balanced that a bit! Aber My courgettes went a bit made so I’ve been making lots of courgette cakes: there’s a lovely national trust one with lemon but the best is the Nigella Lawson one with cream cheese icing and lemon curd. Just need to ignore the last few slices in the fridge!!

Scales were 9.13.2 this morning (which is the highest they’ve been) after a few big meals - aiming for a full fast and a gym class before butternut squash tagine for dinner.

Off to catch up...back soon!

Dyrne · 02/10/2019 16:53

Thanks all - looks like 16:8 is definitely do-able on NFDs as long as I build up to it and don’t use it as a stick to beat myself with! Am remembering how brilliantly flexible this WOE is - have got a catch up with friends on Friday and rather than stressing about ruining my new diet the first week in i’m feeling confident that i’ve got this under control.

Almost through with 2nd FD today. Am feeling hungry but can manage till dinner time easily, and hopefully the soup I have planned will fill me up nicely so I don’t go to bed starving!

MrD I feel your pain with the building work! We just got quotes in to do an extension and new kitchen and they’ve warned us the kitchen could be out of action for weeks! Shock

Well done on the SV, waiting!

fortythree I’m right there with you on resisting the biscuits today - our office seems to permanently have some sort of cakes on offer for some charity or other!

Filly sorry to hear you’ve not been well - but good work on managing to stay mostly virtuous through all the celebrations!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2019 16:56

Congratulations on the inches NSV and SV, waiting

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 02/10/2019 19:40

Great SV and NSVs waiting

Hope your FDs have gone well 43 and filly

Got to love a courgette cake filly! Will add the nigella one to my list Smile My favourite is a courgette and lime cake on allrecipes. There’s also a great courgette and gruyere muffin recipe on bbc good food, for a savoury bake.

Am baking again tonight as I hit my 9-year work anniversary on Friday. Making a spiced pineapple and banana cake - first time, so fingers crossed!

Completed b2b today - 500 yesterday, and 800 today (plus licking the bowl 🙈)

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2019 19:58

Well done on a great b2b, aber
Put the bowl down Grin
Enjoy your cake tomorrow - sounds delic

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/10/2019 20:39

Well done everyone 😁

Good work filly re: steady weight, not easy with work stresses

I have gone slightly over today as freezing bloody cold so decided to have soup for dinner, but on about 610cals overall.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/10/2019 20:41

Ooh aber that cake sounds amazing!!!Cake