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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/09/2019 09:12

morning everyone,

autumn stick with it, I know you don't want to count everything but maybe MFP just for 1 week to double check any calorie bombs...

ice great news on your scan, hope your ankle heals soon

mumm don't dwell on it, it happens to us all, just focus on the next FD

Nfd today and I think FD this week will either be tues and weds B2B or tues and fri, I am meeting a friend after work on thursday which might involve a glass or two of wine, so not sure about a friday fd.

Hope all you monday fasters have a great day Smile

OohMrDarcy · 30/09/2019 09:13

Morning all

NFD here today, planning my usual FDs of Tuesday and Friday this week.

Autumn - sorry to see no loss week 1, it may just be a blip but it is also worth just paying a little more attention on the NFDs this week - and see if that makes a difference?

Vangogh - Soup is ace for being cheap to make and lovely and nutritious too, yum!

iceni - RICE! And maybe pop some ibuprofen to help the swelling - good luck, but don't overdo it or the damage will get worse!

mumm - that is the beauty of this WOE, no problem with family events etc happening. You just work them in!

Good luck to all the Monday fasters

mummTum · 30/09/2019 09:18

Checking in too - good luck everyone!
At work and feeling hungry - will have a herbal tea! We can do it!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2019 09:49

Good luck, Bwydda, WhatToDo, Hummus, mumm and any other Monday fasters

OP posts:
AutumnRose1 · 30/09/2019 11:31

It's going to be very cold from Wednesday and my winter coat doesn't fit.

Embarrassingly I have had to do an emergency one day delivery order to get one, I have to do site visits on Wednesday and will be outside a lot.

I was actually wondering of I ought to change exercise at this point, I.e. reduce it to make dieting easier. Also, there's a lot of weight pounding through my joints now when I run....

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2019 12:33

Autumn weight loss for most folk is 90% diet, 10% exercise - except for the small minority of people exercising intensely 5-6 days per week

So, you can lower the exercise if that makes this WOE easier
I suggest no more than 1 hour per day exercise for you; or a 20-minute session if it works you hard
Always have 1-2 training weekly restdays, or more if you wish

Consider changing the type of exercise not just the amount....

What works best on 5:2 is HIIT and resistance / strength training, since these tend to use more bodyfat as fuel
In contrast, steady state cardio uses more carbs / glycogen - and fasting (or low carb) lowers your glycogen stores - so that type of exercise can make your hungrier and / or tired

Hence, if you do long cardio sessions of e.g. elliptic trainer, treadmill, running, swimming etc - then I suggest you cut that right down to 1 day per week
and swap the other sessions to e.g. sprint intervals, short bursts of rope skipping, spin class, pump class, free weights

JM's Shred - Level 1 free on YouTube - is a v popular HIIT routine here too,
e.g. MrD does that a lot and others can also tell you about their Shreds.

If you prefer walking as your exercise, instead of the intense stuff, then that is fine too, whatever exercise level suits you

OP posts:
AutumnRose1 · 30/09/2019 12:38

OP yes that % is what I heard

I tend to do long cardio for mental health so the thought of cutting it is very hard. I also do weights for resistance but have always been careful about that. My sister went through a phase of wanting to power lift and she ended up eating everything in sight! I had a boyfriend who went through similar and he said the increased expenditure on food was awful as well.

I always used to find the fitness targets more attractive but now so embarrassed and uncomfortable at this size, I'd rather get the weight off first and reassess.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2019 14:09

I suggest you review exercise Autumn and try shaking things up.

Long walks outside, preferably through some green, are good for MH

  • research has shown that walking helps the brain's "executive functions" and can help mild depression

If you replace the long cardio with short sessions of HIIT - cardio or weights - you may also find that helps mood
Research shows that HIIT can help problems with insulin metabolism that can hinder weight loss

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2019 14:10

By long cardio, I mean any long sessions of running, swimming, elliptical trainer etc
Walking is good for you

OP posts:
AutumnRose1 · 30/09/2019 19:03

I'll have a ponder on the exercise I guess

Bloody hate HIIT

There's a therapy to a long cardio session that I've yet to find anywhere else. Well, I enjoy weights too!

I'm feeling quite bloated; I now realise I had that last week too. It's the extra protein I think. I suppose any change is going to take a lot of adjustment.

EssentialHummus · 30/09/2019 19:08

Hi all, successful FD for all the wrong reasons - I have had an upset stomach all day (likely something I ate yesterday at a toddler bday party), so I’ve eaten nothing all day. Half a cup of coffee before I realised what was up. Can’t really face a meal know but will have some broth or rice cakes or something. Here’s hoping that’s my dose of winter illness done.

How did others get on?

Waitingforadulthood · 30/09/2019 19:53

(Bwydda here- I broke my phone and cannot work out what email I had originally, so have had to reregister)

I'm closing the kitchen at 400 . I had broccoli soup with 10g goats cheese and then a chicken vegetable stir fry with 25g brown rice. One of my best fast days- I usually go to bed hungry but I'm fine today.

Will be doing b2b tomorrow

Whattodowithaminute · 30/09/2019 19:56

Wow waiting impressive FD you too essentialhummus I’ve still not had dinner as waiting for DH to come home-it’s been harder today with the big space between lunch and dinner but still a reasonable day-should manage to come in at 550max.

AutumnRose1 · 30/09/2019 20:07

Hummus, poor you!

Waiting, 400, wow, impressive.

mummTum · 30/09/2019 22:10

About 450 for me but don’t think it was very good; kiwi, babybel and rice cake for lunch, chickpea, tomato and carrots for dinner ; not filling enough and now hungry. Better to plan!

waiting that’s impressive! I am esp jealous of the chicken stir fry and rice!
hummus hope you feel better soon.

nolongersurprised · 01/10/2019 04:42

FD here, but now that I’m at maintenance my FDs are about 800 - though that’s still hard! I try to do 2 of them.

I’m getting into a not great pattern of having a good FD on Tuesday, then thinking I’ll get the second out of the way on Wednesday, doing well till 8pm and then having another serving of food so trying again on Thursday and not making it through the whole day. I don’t think I’m cut out for back-to-backs! I’ll aim to stick to tues/thurs.

I’ve had a couple of eggs this am and I’ll have salmon, broccoli and brown rice this evening. The rest of the day will be easy as I’m ferrying my kids around to various places -dentist, swimming training, to a sleepover so I won’t have time to eat!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2019 06:54

Well done on your FD, waitingfor, mumm

I hope your tum is ok today, Hummus
I suggest you skip any 2nd FD this week, just in case the syptoms return

Good luck, surprised
I recommend you stick to single FDs, since you can nail those consistently;
many people can't manage b2b, no matter how experienced they are at fasting - it's very individual which system works best

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2019 06:55

OH and well done too, WhatToDO
Sorry, didn't see you for a moment < scrubs muck off glasses >

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 01/10/2019 07:35

Morning all

Checking in for my Tuesday FD, who is with me?

Hummus hope you are feeling better soon!

Dyrne · 01/10/2019 08:34

Hi all, may I join please? Starting again after doing quite well on 5:2 a couple of years ago - lost 3 stone! I’ve had a bit of a shocker of a time recently and although i’ve flirted with dieting i’ve just not been in the right place mentally.

I’ve clambered back on the wagon and managed my first FD yesterday (506 calories) - I was half expecting to wake up ravenous today but i’m not actually too bad!

Really determined this time as i’ve crept back up into the Obese category and I know that’s definitely not healthy for me!!!

aberjenagain · 01/10/2019 08:45

Welcome dyrne!

I’m fasting with you today mrd - thinking about b2b again, but will stick to 500 today just in case.

Well done on yesterday’s successful FDs waiting, mummtum, and whattodo.

Poor you hummus, hope you’re on the mend again very soon Flowers

aberjenagain · 01/10/2019 08:46

Also, I never got my final gelato last week - the one I planned my FDs around - as the weather was too gross so he didn’t open Sad

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/10/2019 08:52

morning everyone, well done on all the FDs yesterday, hope you are feeling better today hummus

Welcome dyrne and good luck

Decided I'd have NFD today, its cold and wet and miserable and I have 3 horrible meetings at work, so not in the mood. Fd planned for tomorrow. Just a skinny latte until lunch which is rice cakes, philly and sliced toms and a cup of soup followed by natural yogurt. No idea yet re: dinner, but have 1150 calories to make something tasty and even have something sweet for GBBO Grin

oh no aber you were robbed.....

OohMrDarcy · 01/10/2019 10:48

Welcome Dyrne, keep posting!

Robbed Aber- I'd be well miffed if a planned treat didn't happen!

43, enjoy your latte - did you get a free one? (the express machines are free today!)

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2019 12:42

Welcome, Dyrne 🙂
And well done on a good 1st FD back

You know what menus worked for you last time, so you know you can nail your goal
and this time, you'll have a specific maintenance plan, so you won't have to lose the weight again

Good luck, aber
If you nail today around 500, then you have 800 available tomorrow, if you feel up to a b2b

Tough about the Great Gelato Robbery, but I'm sure it'll open again on an NFD, - maybe Saturday ?

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