5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Not the healthiest meals today, but within goal TDEE still so not too worried as a one off, plus we went for a walk up the local famous big hill this afternoon and this evening I've done day 2 of shred which was easier than day 1 already, but my muscles are feeling it more (as I did nearly all of it this time!)... getting up will be interesting in the morning!

Well done to all the monday fasters, I'm fasting tomorrow - who's joining me?

Chilli going in the slow cooker for dinner - the kids can have it with rice and cheese, I'll just have a sprinkle of cheese on top if needed.

I'm going for a b2b tomorrow Mrdarcy so will be fasting with you. I've planned in 541 cals and it's a really busy day so should be easier.

FD completed on a bit over 500; milky coffee to start the day then all remaining calories end-loaded into an aubergine and pepper stew.
Well done to iceni, Mr D - I hope all the other fasters made it. bwydda your meals are just mouthwatering.

Haha the shred = serious arse ache; I’m
still finding I need to do an extended stretch down to avoid walking around like John Wayne for the rest of the day.

Well done on your FDs, lania, iceni, onko

iceni Yes, try fasted morning runs on FDs,
but also keep them short, up to 40 mins, to avoid feeling shattered in the afternoon / evening

Running - and swimming - use more of your glycogen stores, which an FD will run down (so will low carb)

In contrast, FDs are a good time for HIIT, so a short session of sprint intervals in between warm up m& cool down jogs
FDs are also a good time for crosstraining with lifting / resistance exercises

Good luck, bwydda
On a b2b, you can have 650 cals per day instead of 500.
Or you can do 500 cals on FD1, then 800 on FD2 (that works because you start FD2 already fasted)

Excellent exercise boost, MrD

onko Call up your inner John Wayne and go for the shred tomorrow !

Well done Monday fasters! Finished here a few hours ago with a tuna salad and decaff coffee.

Hallo everyone. I've just completed my first FD of the summer hols. It was tough but I've done it. Need to b2b for tomorrow.

Putting it on the calendar helped as I conveniently managed to skip 2 FDs a fortnight ago.

I haven't weighed myself but clothes def a bit tighter.... but hopefully not for too long

Well done, hummus - that was a b2b, iirc

Well done too, Borris on your 1st day back

Holiday gain generally goes quickly if tackled promptly, as MrD has just demonstrated again
A couple of good FDs and poops will help your clothes feel looser again

Definitely best to note in your calendar, if you struggle to fit fasting into your weekly routine

Right, have caught up on the thread. Kitchen closed: I got brave (!) and had some homemade veg chilli out the freezer (quorn mince, some mixed beans, lots of veg, tinned tomatoes, no oil) with a small plain baked potato, and a plain small baked apple for dessert, and reckon I’ve come in somewhere between 400-500 cal.

Welcome Cuttlefish - and another vote for Jillian Michaels (known in our household as “Evil Jill”!) for a manageable (only 20 minutes) at home workout which gets you visible results amazingly fast. You really do think you will die, but it is only 20 minutes and then you are done for the day! Theres a series called “10 minute blasts” or something similar for different parts of the body by different instructors,which are pretty good too. All you need at home are some handweights (or bottles of water) and perhaps a mat for the floor. Onko sounds like you and JM have really hit it off! When you get bored of Shred, I can recommend her other videos too - although Shred is still my favourite.

MrD huge congrats on getting back to (heck, below!) your holiday weight so quickly. Onwards...!! Enjoy the new sports bra - I got a couple of new ones recently and it makes such a big difference to have proper support. In fact I’m thinking about getting one or two more now that I’m going to the gym nearly every day

Onko, I’m so impressed by your healthy weekend. Wish I had had one like that...did you really do a 1 mile swim????

43 - I feel your pain! But like you, I’m feeling and looking better so really hoping it isn’t actually long term weight gain but just a blip

Iceni, well done on your loss. It takes time and it must be super irritating when your partner loses faster...stick with it!

Hummus, I’m so impressed by your travelling FD (I’ve never managed one of those...!) and then a b2b - gosh! That last kilo will be gone in no time at this rate!

Bwydda, it sounds as though your blip was entirely excusable (and you did the right thing!) - and as you know, there’s no failed fasts, there’s just delayed ones. More to the point, I want you to come and cook for me - your FD menus sound amazing!!!

Welcome Smile Most people find that they can power on pretty well on a FD once they get used to it. The first ones are hard, but I’ve found being busy makes it easier as there’s less time to think about food. The trick is to stay hydrated and to plan your food carefully so you don’t end up reaching for a snack out of habit. Hot drinks (herbal tea or black coffee) are especially good at times when you might normally have a snack. I’ve found HIIT exercise on a FD to be fine, and that it can really help with keeping my appetite under control (BCF tells me the endorphin rush can act as a bit of a suppressant). You’ll find loads of amazing links and useful info at the top of the thread, and BCF is an amazing source of advice and inspiration... just don’t read Bwydda’s updates or you’ll get FD-meal-envy (or maybe it’s just me...!)

Well done on your FD, filly
and on boosting he exercise.

Yep, treat yourself to another sports bra too

Morning all

Checking in for my FD. Chilli has just gone in the slow cooker and I'm looking forward to that later!

Taking the kids to local trampoline place to celebrate end of summer shortly and it is less than a mile from home so we will be walking there and back. I'll shred later when we are home.

Anyone else joining bwydda and me?

Loving all the positivity on the thread at the mo! Feeling like everyone is in the zone.

Well done Lania, Hummus and all other Monday fasters.

Filly, yes I’m now a JM disciple. I was planning to do Ripped in 30 next - I actually started on ripped but was steered towards shred as I was told that levelling up in Ripped is a bit hardcore. Are there any other 20 min ones to look at?

Wow Mr D, shredding on both days of a B2B is super impressive. I’m an early morning exerciser so do fasted exercise on the day after a FD and find it difficult (but not massively so).

Didn't fast yesterday onko! I'm not that brave

Good luck today, MrD and any other Tuesday fasters

Oh dear - Tuesday night here and had pretty much completed a good FD but then needed to prepare food for my daughter as we’d been to a school event and she hadn’t had time to eat properly before. And of course I found that I ate her left overs and then some yoghurt and dark chocolate .

It’s ok, I’ll just go again tomorrow but then it’ll have to be a b2b with Thursday. I slept very badly last night so im annoyed with myself for not just going to bed.

Otherwise all is good, I’ve been 62 point something for over 2 months now which is probably going to be my set point. I can’t get to 62kg without serious sacrifices on NFDs and I don’t think that will work. My BMI is 21.8 so I’m feeling healthy again. I’m sticking with the two FDs but being a bit more relaxed, aiming for sub 800 and that seems to be working.

I’m impressed with the exercisers - I’m normally fairly motivated with running but have been quite lazy about it the last few weeks. I only really get a small window of time to run but whereas normally I’ll grasp it currently I’m reading and drinking coffee in bed instead.

Good luck to the northern hemisphere Tuesday fasters - I hope yours is better than mine!

Kitchen closed on 494 here

Just letting my delicious chilli go down a bit before I attempt by shred.... 🤞🏻 it isn't too much harder on a FD!

Surprised, sounds like you have got yourself into a maintenance rhythm... well done!

Checking back in! First fd for 2 weeks after hols. Had intended a couple more in the interim but came down with a horrid cold, so decided to err on the side of caution. Am v pleased that scales show less than 2 pounds on, despite some less than stellar habits esp towards the end. Was more active than usual, so am guessing that helped. And it’s v nice to be back on it now - am obvs a creature of habit, nice to be back to routine!

Kitchen closed on 598. Returned to a massive courgette glut, despite offloading loads on the neighbours before we went, so that’s dictating this week’s menu! 43 your baked stuffed courgette recipe sounds delicious so am going to try that out this week

filly our courgettes have been bonkers this year, fingers crossed yours are on the way. Your toms and beans look lush!

Well done to all the fasters. I closed the kitchen on 501 today.

Surprised, 21 is a great BMI. Are you happy with where you are?

Aber, sounds like we are in the same boat post hols. I weighed yesterday after fasting Sunday and I was up around half a pound but it's also TOTM so feeling hopeful for tomorrow's weigh in. I WILL get under 11st soon!

Closing the kitchen at 798- after a 500 fast yesterday, following big chocs advice, I'll count that as a b2b.

Filly thank you for complimenting my menu- Im a part time recipe tester for a local publisher, so I'm just cooking what I'm given. Ive been uploading all my weeks recipes to mfp so that I can fit it in around fasting, but found a lot of recipes are pretty low cal (once I've quartered the oil suggested) I live for food (which has led me to a very bad relationship with it)

Well done on your FDs, MrD, aber, tutti

Enjoy your delic homegrown courgettes, aber, the fruits of your earlier labours

You'll get in the 10 stone somethings soon, tutti

Sounds like you are a regular Shredder now, MrD which is fab for your fitness
You can also try some of her other routines if you want variety - I can post the links

surprised BMI 21.8 is a good BMI, so if that's what you can comfortably maintain, it makes sense to stick with that.

Most folk can maintain with 800 FDs instead of 500 - you eat back the deficit on some NFDs, but ease in gradually to that

I recommend you cross-train by adding some strength / resistance training a couple of days per week
The Evil JM is very handy with her 20 minute Shred and that's pretty HIIT too, for a fitness boost

Well done on your b2b, bwydda
That's right after your 500 FD1; you've nailed it

Fd2 done here. It was easier than yesterday although I felt hungrier.

Asda Thai green curry good for you ready meal. 370 calls and delicious.

I'm hoping to grow more veg next year. The courgettes sound yum. And I must dig out my old shred videos.

tutti I am happy with where I’m at. I’ve lost 13 kg doing 5:2 and my original goal was 64kg but when I got there I realised I could stand to lose a bit more and revised it to 62kg. I’m below 63 I can’t quite get to a neat 62! I don’t mind though, my NFDs include wine on the weekends, chocolate if I want it (although I don’t have a massive sweet tooth) and sampling any baking my oldest daughter makes. It’s been great losing that weight, I feel like myself again

Will try again today with a b2b. I have some non sweetened Greek yoghurt I’ll have for breakfast, 2 eggs for lunch if I need to (depending on the intensity of work) which will get me to 300, then 350 in the evening. Maybe my usual baked salmon, brown rice combo. I’ll check in if I’m struggling!

Morning all

Good luck with your b2b today surprised

NFD here and I'm having a baked potato with leftover chilli for dinner tonight, yum!

Morning all- I weighed today, and am another 1lb down, and ANOTHER inch from my waist (that's an inch a week!) I know that'll slow later on but I'm absolutely thrilled