Blood sugar diet and Fast800 thread 15

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Some useful links:

Previous thread

Blood Sugar Diet and Fast800 thread 14 http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/3532374-blood-sugar-diet-and-fast800-thread-14

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

Already cracked here! A small bag of sunbites & a couple of pieces of apple with a touch of peanut butter. I really need to get back to 800 after a few all over the place weeks but @Fur you are totally right, in the grand scheme of things, it's not the end of the world.

Hello! Am a newbie! I posted on the main forum as am doing this as nearly a vegan- I eat eggs but no dairy, fish or meat. Am in week 4 and started at 12 stone but am not 11/5 and am doing it 5 days a week.

Am interested in thoughts on doing it vegan as naturally more carbs. This is my meal plan for today:

B- soya yoghurt with coconut, walnuts, dark fruit, chia and soya cream - around 170 cals

L- green lentil & smoked tofu salad with tomatoes & avo- around 400 cals

D - 2 veggie sausages with kale & brocolli which is around 200 cals

What do people think? It seems to be working but it’s slowed down. I am feeling well & trying to be very on it with my food.

Is it possible?

I think it naturally does slow down a bit, make sure you are doing exercise and drinking A LOT and it will pick back up. Just keep going!

Your food sounds yummy, maybe watch the salt? I find sometimes veggie sausages can be quite high.

I'm back on for the second day. I ate some carbs over the weekend and now

Have Carb Craving!
I was really hungry watching love island last night so had a handful of olives and some cocoa made with sugar free almond milk. Over half term I tried to stick to low carb eating but did go over 800 calories and definitely had more alcohol than normal . Hence I've been losing and regaining the same three pounds.

Hi stripy, welcome.
I think your menu is fine- there isn't technically an upper carb limit as it's more to do with the type of carbs so you should be ok eating the vegan options from the 'allowed foods' eg. Beans, lentils, etc. I'd be more inclined to say monitor your fat and protein intake to ensure it's high enough, rather than your carb intake to ensure it's low enough if that makes sense? Dairy is my main source of fat so it could be that you need to be quite organised to factor in enough fat, especially early in the day , to keep you going.

I should clarify- there isn't technically an upper carb limit because if you stick to the 800 calories and stick to the approved foods, the plan naturally limits itself.

Stripy you might also benefit from reducing your eating window down by skipping breakfast, and having brunch and dinner, rather than 3 meals (even if you condense those 3 into 2 so have exactly the same food) and also maybe have 1 day a week where you eat more fat/protein and avoid the beans/lentils (eg make that your egg and avocado day!)

Hi all and welcome to the new faces. I was so sure I’d have a woosh today but scales have not moved. It’s weird I felt lighter and was really hoping today was my day.
Anyway. I will keep being very strict and it will come.
I struggle to get enough protein. With two meals a day I find it almost impossible. How do you guys manage?

Do you eat meat LND ? My diet is fairly meat heavy, I usually average about 30-40% protein simply from having egg/ham at lunch and then a meat portion at evening meal. It must be harder to achieve on a vege diet. However, fat is really the key- increasing your fat intake will be what curbs your hunger (and it's often the bit we subconsciously avoid after years of dieting). You can calculate how many grams of protein you require daily, I think it's approx 0-4 to 0.5g per lb of body weight (unless you're an athlete/weight trainer etc)

www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-per-day

And, this can be averaged over a week, rather than a daily amount. Sometimes it's helpful to have a 'fat focus' day and a 'protein focus' day rather than try to get everything perfectly balanced daily. So using stripy as an example- Monday you could have lots of fat and veg (eg eggs, olive oil, olives, avocado, salads) then Tuesday could be more lentils/beans veg (so higher carbs), then Wednesday concentrate on protein sources (nuts, quorn etc) - it means you can have decent portions of each (eg. No wasting 2/3 if an avocado because you don't have the calories) and you get the nutrients right. It's another reason why it's so beneficial to meal plan and view the week as a whole.

I eat a lot of meat, cheese and fish too. A common lunch is Tuna and Advocado salad or Griddled Halloumi or bacon and egg salad. Or sometimes Chicken noodle soup with zero noodles with extra meat and veggies added. Dinner is usually meat or fish plus veggies. I don't eat breakfast so eat a early lunch at 12. Hence by 5pm I need to have some protein like a handful of almonds or a hard boiled egg. I usually have them with some baby tomatoes or mini cucumbers. This stops me eating rubbish for dinner and gives me time to prepare healthy food.
I am aware I do eat large portions of protein though. I had some steak for lunch and it was about 159gms which is pretty dense in terms of calories ........and protein.

Oh🤦‍♀️, I had misunderstood. I thought it was 1g per kg body weight so I have been trying to eat around 70g a day. Which is ALOT! I eat fish and meat and fat but obviously I was looking at the measurements all wrong...

Really good point on meal planning. I must get better ar this

LND I reckon that's about right though in metric (ie. 0.4 g per pound is around 1g per kilo), and yes it's a fair bit. I think I have the opposite problem, my diet is very protein heavy at times (but it's not always the best quality, ie processed meat, bacon) so I am trying to eat smaller, cleaner protein portions. Don't forget protein in non meat sources eg milk, eggs etc.

You could also look at it this way:
Fat has 9cal per gram
Protein has 4 cal per gram
Carbs have 4 cal per gram

So if you aim for 40/40/20 % ratios that means
320 cals of fat (approx 35g)
320 cals of protein (approx 80g)
160 cals of carbs (approx 40g)

(Bear in mind these are the weight of the nutrients not the whole food, which contain non-caloric weight such as water, fibre...)

That can help give you an idea of portion sizes when meal planning, eg a 100g chicken breast would give you 30g protein and 7g fat for 190 cals, so even though it's quite a small chicken breast (the big juicy ones from the butcher are about 300 g each!) it's actually a really suitable size lunch portion along with some carbs (salad, loads of volume for the cals/carbs) and maybe some extra fat (olive oil and balsamic dressing?)

I would wholeheartedly recommend meal planning- find a quiet time, when you can concentrate, get a big piece of paper- you can always edit and fine tune. It's is nigh on impossible to meal plan properly at 5.30 on a Wednesday night in between school and gymnastics club with 3 ankle biters darling children running around. Plan all your meals, not just your dinner. Cal count it (roughly) as well and write your shop list and voila! That's it all done for the week!

I will add though, for balance- it can sometimes feel like a very complex science experiment trying to balance all these macronutrients, and sometimes life isn't like that so I wouldn't get too worried if you're not hitting the macros exactly every day/week. Maybe start small with 2 or 3 perfectly planned days each week? Then increase?

I did well yesterday but today I failed. A small birthday cake and fresh sprouted rye bread all gone. Grrr so annoyed I knew at the time I would feel bad but did it anyway - I’m very impulsive. I’m trying to reflect where to went wrong yesterday I had 1000 kcal but had steel cut oats before bed. Ok confession time over.

I also had milky coffee for breakfast and seem to do better when fasting in the am. Still a learning curve.

I hope you don’t. Kind me floating in... I’m trying but not hard enough clearly! I’m trying to think what my motivation is, feeling good? Phoenix I also relate to when sorting out the overeating other things slot into place and it makes sense your resilience has increased. Bit of a selfish post but wanted to revaluate my own reasons for doing this. I’m finding my cravings worst now post 40 but maybe that’s because my habits are very ingrained.

Tomorrow onwards and upwards...

I wondered if you’d mind me joining. My DH and I have started the fast800 this week. I’m finding the cravings hard, I’m not hungry as such (well not all the time anyway) it’s almost boredom that is making me feel like I should eat. Will it pass?

Welcome justalitte, you are in the right place! It is hard at first. My carb flue was dreadful all well documented on thread 14. The ladies here were wonderful and now I’m much much better. We talk about emotional eating here quite abit,
Many of us use food for comfort, as a crutch or as you say because we are bored. It is useful to try and become aware when your triggers are so that you can uSe distractions. I use a mindfulness app now for example and in the evenings after dinner I brush my teeth. That stops me going to the kitchen.

Just I think that feeling is quite common. I think for me it's partly emotional cues making my brain think 'food' and also habit. You will get more used to recognising true hunger and being able to determine whether it's true hunger or not.

I've ended up on around 1300 today which wasn't ideal, my food was generally good but I had a mad moment of craving and ended up eating cheese, ham, yoghurt straight from the fridge which pushed me over . 20k Steps though, 7.5k was a run. I think it will take me a few days to get back into the sugar free mindset. Annoyingly I am going out for a meal tomorrow- I don't really want to, although I want to see the people I'm going with so it's a necessity. We're going to miller and carter, I've checked out the menu and I'm going to have a ceasar salad with salmon. I'm driving so won't be tempted, and I can hopefully refuse pudding.

phoenix hope things went as well as they could today

I’ve just read the protein bit with a sinking heart.
I need about 80g a day apparently. I seem to get about 50.

As a veggie I could eat 12 large eggs a day to give me about 80 g of protein and about 800 calories.
Or a block and a half of tofu for about 600 calories. At leAst I’d be able to have some veg to that day.

I think you meat eaters are onto something.

Thanks for your comments

I just wrote a long post that didn’t post!! My question is how long can I do this for? Am on week 4 and I am losing weight but obviously I can’t live on 800 cals forever! I feel well but wondered if it’s ok to keep going until I get to my target of 10/13?

Stripy I think in the book he says 12 weeks, and a maximum of 20? But you can do multiple rounds- so do 8 weeks, have a break where you follow the med diet but have more calories, and then do another round of 800 cals for a few weeks. Or after the first round, switch to 5:2? I think because you are only doing 800 calories 5 days a week, you could maybe do this for longer.

Ohyes that's why it's a bit counterproductive to look at macros- if what you're doing is working then I wouldn't worry too much. The key reasons for me to consider increasing protein would be either because I was feeling hungry all the time or to support an exercise regime. I definitely noticed that when my protein was low, my workouts suffered and I didn't lose weight so for me it was necessary to increase cals in order to allow extra protein. I do think meat eaters have an advantage in that there's a huge variety of carb free foods we can eat, but it is still possible on a vege or even vegan diet. Have you tried searching Pinterest for vege/vegan keto recipes or menu plans?

@ohyes have you looked into protein shakes at all? I know we need to eat real food but since I have added in weight training and boxing I have felt that I needed more protein. There are vegan ones on the market. It’s an easy way to add protein whilst limiting calories thus enabling you to use calories for veg and fibre which are also hugely important! Like bear I have somewhat upped my calories to allow for the protein, averaging on about 950 now. I’m sure my weight loss is slower as a result but I no longer go on as many mid night cupboard raids as I used to. Might be worth checking protein shakes as a supplements.
Speaking of supplements does anyone take any? I’m taking iron now as my levels were stupidly low and I also take omega 3 and CLA.
I had as a goal to be 69 something before I leave for the funeral tmrw. This morning I thought, this is it!!! I have done it! But I fell a tad short, weighing in at 70.00kg. Still it’s my lowest yet so I’ll take it. And who knows? Perhaps by tmrw I’ll be there.

Ive been travelling so not posted much as I thought it might stress me to feel I should do better. I did what I could. IF with just coffee until lunch. I had some hard boiled eggs. Then joined in with dinners. But wine was drunk and more fruit than usual and some dark choc...Anyway I was consoling myself on way home that I'd eaten much less I'd eaten than on previous trips. Long train journeys often mean snacking the whole way. I had an egg and a coffee. Plus I'd walked lots. Being hugely overtired lead to a a binge takeaway when I got home. But im down to lowest I've been so far tiday despite the booze and sugar!
I've been thinking that I want to try moving on to a looser format. Going by the principles, hopefully losing a bit more weight still, but if not ,seeing this as a regroup period before another push to lose weight. I'm just a few kilos over a healthy weight and I'd hope to get there first. But bouncing up and down as I've done for a month is not good mentally.
I have spent time noting to myself how much better I feel being lighter.

Thanks bear and lndn, both valid points, what I’m doing is working, and I’ll look into it again including protein shakes if I start stalling.

Have a god high protein low carb hunger free fat burning day everyone x