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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

Blood sugar diet and Fast800 thread 15

999 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 23/05/2019 07:34

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Some useful links:

Previous thread

Blood Sugar Diet and Fast800 thread 14 http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/3532374-blood-sugar-diet-and-fast800-thread-14

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 30/07/2019 20:35

Grey yes you're right. Bloody hell, my kids are hard work (as are everyone's I'm sure!)- Dh and I actually paid them £2 each to stay quiet in the car today for 20 minutes, and it was glorious! Running in the rain is something quite lovely too, especially when the sea's spraying all over the coastal path. I shouldn't grumble really. Truth be told, I'm horribly hormonal (I think my weird midcycle spotting has had some effect on it?) and once I unleash the carb monster at this totm, it doesn't go away without a fight!

Blood sugar diet and Fast800 thread 15
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PhoenixMama · 31/07/2019 09:24

OMG, I can't quite believe it but I've lost another 2lb! I wasn't going to weigh myself this morning after yesterday but had a chat with myself about having to see the impact of my actions blah blah blah and I'm down!

What's most amazing about this is that I'm so close (2.5lbs) to having lost 50lbs in the last year and 40lbs in the last 5 months!!! If you'd asked me 6 months ago if it was possible for me to have lost this much weight this year I would have thought you were crazy! I have almost always failed at diets, the only time I haven't was pre-kids and I went on a fitness/exercise kick and I lost a lot in 4 months but I was 28, had no responsibilities and was working out 6 days a week. I'm slightly stunned! And very chuffed! 9lbs to my final goal!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 31/07/2019 10:03

Well done Phoenix Star

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GreyBasket · 31/07/2019 10:13

That brilliant @PhoenixMama 😀 ⭐️ Well done!

And bribery sounds the right idea to me @thenewaveragebear1983 😆

MozzchopsThirty · 31/07/2019 11:59

@PhoenixMama that's amazing, what an achievement 👏🏼👏🏼

Lndnmummy · 31/07/2019 13:20

Phoenix my god!!! That’s amazing!!!!! I’m so happy for you!! It’s funny I have found that if I have a “cheat day” then later that week I will have a woosh. Bodies are weird hey. I love this way of eating, it has changed my life. No more back pain, knee pain or insomnia. I am not prediabetic and my blood pressure and cholesterol is normal. I have 10lbs or 5kg to go (get lost Reiss what’s his name).
And the best bit, undoubtedly is the change to my mental health. I have not shared this before but when I joined I suffered badly with PND and PN anxiety. I have since lost my job AND had a family bereavement. The old me would have put on another stone. But I have lost weight AND reduced my AD dosages, DESPITE all the external turmoil. I owe my life to this way of eating. It’s not even about looks, it’s about my life.
Getting abit emotional but I’m so bloody grateful.

mommybear1 · 31/07/2019 14:05

@PhoenixMama wow well done you!!!! What an achievement

PhoenixMama · 31/07/2019 14:38

Thank you for all the messages you lovely lot!

@Lndnmummy I so hear you on the mental health side, I have PTSD, anxiety & depression - a huge amount of my weight gain came from my meds and I was constantly told it was unlikely I'd lose whilst on them. Well screw those people - it is possible! And while the first couple of weeks are hard and it's hard to get back on the wagon sometimes, life is SO much better eating this way. I am having a really stressful couple of weeks and normally I'd eat my way through it and while I'm not hardcore on plan I'm not in a soporific carb coma all the time, I'm mentally & physically lighter. I'm slightly worried what's going to happen after I got my goal because I love this woe so much!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 01/08/2019 08:01

Lndmummy well done Star

I'm still ticking along, having a few treats but still trying to keep my head on plan at least at the beginning of the day. Doing lots of steps (30k nearly yesterday) and swimming, as well as running. I'm now 4 days late which is very unlike me and is probably contributing to my carb cravings a great deal. Trying not to dread the scales too much, there will be a gain (definitely!) but hopefully not too gargantuan.

Today I'm not running as I've done 10km the last two mornings and I'm knackered! Bacon brekkie, lunch is salad and ham, and a meal out tonight at a steak/grill place so all entirely possible to be on plan...but probably supplemented with an ice cream and a glass of wine! Life's too short to diet all the time, right?

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Riddleofthesands · 01/08/2019 13:52

Fantastic news PhoenixMama you are so near your goal, excited for you. Congrats to Lndnmummy too and glad you are feeling better. I wake up most nights at 4 am fretting about small stuff, I think for me alcohol needs to go.

Day 1 for me, back from holiday. It was really great but the bread, new potatoes and wine are all showing. All clothes even fat trousers are painfully tight. Scales say I have 16 lbs to lose. DH also wants to lose a stone. Nothing so far today, fish and roast veg for dinner. I feel well and wretched period just ending so if I stick to the rules I should lose.

GreyBasket · 02/08/2019 10:32

Help. I am still not losing weight 😔

I went down to 10.09 last week, after dropping to that the week before and going up again to 10.11.

I've flaming done that again 😩 I am now at 10.11 again.

This is a typical day for me. Where the f am I going wrong? I AM exercising hard three times a week but it's not as if I am close to my ideal weight so I should still be losing!!!!

I've now been doing this way of eating for four weeks on Monday and I have always lost weight before by low carbing or fasting and so I don't understand it.

Lunch
Hard boiled egg 66 calories
Half avocado 191 calories
Strip feta 75 calories
Salad leaves, cucumber, 3 cherry tomatoes
Teaspoon olive oil 41 calories

Dinner
Chicken breast wrapped in Parma ham from MM book 321 calories
Green vegetables

4 cups mint tea
10 glasses of sparkling water

thenewaveragebear1983 · 02/08/2019 11:08

Hi grey, my two-pennies worth if you want it? 1) I don't think you're eating enough to sustain your exercise. I'd be gnawing my arm off on running days if I ate your menu there! 2) maybe you're not insulin resistant and maybe you don't have visceral fat which is why you're not getting the initial whoosh of weightloss?

If it was me, I'd be doing alternate day 800 cals as per your menu, but on exercise days (or even on non exercise days, and fast on exercise days? Play around with it) I'd be increasing the calories allowance in order to get extra protein and fat in, but maybe on those days drop the carbs right down low (eg sub 25g) - so basically green salad, very small amount of dairy, but lots of olive oil, oily fish, chicken thighs and fattier cuts, avocado etc. Maybe count calories but allow say 12-1500? Or even not count at all on those days. Something's clearly not working out for you here so I think you need to mix it up a bit.

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GreyBasket · 02/08/2019 14:56

Thank you @thenewaveragebear1983 I need to do your suggestion. I know I do. It just feels like I am going backwards by increasing my calorie intake.

I definitely have visceral fat and fasting always worked for me before (can resistance to insulin change?) so I am finding it baffling.

The urge to drink a lot of red wine this evening in consolation is immense 😊

I had extra avocado at lunch time 😊

thenewaveragebear1983 · 02/08/2019 16:11

Grey yes. Your resistance to insulin can change all the time. In theory after doing this diet/fasting you should improve your insulin function but the dramatic change in insulin function can help the big weight loss. I'd imagine that your stalling is linked to your exercise - a combination of muscle gain, plus water retention (if you're experiencing DOMS then it's water around your muscles) plus it really is quite common to experience this stall when you start a new exercise regime.

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PhoenixMama · 02/08/2019 19:02

@GreyBasket What are your carb grams on your meals? For me it's more about carbs than calories. Also are you entering recipes into MFP or similar - several of the stats on recipes in his books are wrong. Not saying that's the case but it all adds up. Are you also drinking more than 3L of water? These are all things that make me stall - although if you're doing weight-bearing exercise then the numbers may stall but the inches will shrink - have you checked your measurements?

I am stress eating like a crazy lady. Just over 48 hours till the move and then I can have my life back!

EttyG · 03/08/2019 12:02

Hello 👋🏻

I'm new and would love to join! I received the fast 800 book yesterday and binged-read it last night - wow what a revelation!!

I always knew it wasn't as simple as eat less / move more (love MM analogy of saying that it's like going to a tennis coach to improve your game and being told all you need to do is win more points than your opponent - not useful!)

Anyway the next couple of days will be planning, I don't have the right foods in at the moment, all low fat versions of everything! It is hard to get my head round eating full fat things. It makes me nervous but after reading the book I trust the science. I think understanding the science behind the diet will help me be successful.

I am trying to at least stick to a TRE plan during the transition. I've been skipping breakfast a lot lately anyway so it's not a huge change, just need to stop earlier in the evenings now.

The other thing that make me a little nervous is thinking surely I am going to starve! But I've seen on these threads and in the book that it seems you overcome it quite quickly?

I did notice there is a lot of mention about visceral fat. I'm 6 stone overweight so I'm sure I do have some, however my hip to waist ratio is very low, I'm very pear shaped and carry a huge amount on bum and thighs. I assume the plan will still work for me? I'm not pre-diabetic but my DM and DS have both got/had T2 diabetes so I know I must be at risk of it if my current weight prolongs or rises.

Anyway, I'm feeling very excited!

Oh does anyone have any home scales they can recommend? My current ones are massively unreliable, concrete floor, always laid flat yet have a huge fluctuation every time you stand on it. For now I will stick with my weekly weigh ins at slimming world but I'd like to weight at home.

PhoenixMama · 03/08/2019 13:11

Welcome Etty!

These are my scales which I like (although it took 72 hours for them to equalise so I was pretty shocked when I first stood on them! iTeknic Body Fat Scale, 11 Health... www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07GVCJ1C1?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I also wasn't that hungry when I started - but make sure you are getting enough protein & you drink loads of water!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 03/08/2019 13:27

Welcome etty. Good luck. If you're a slimming world-er all I will say is get prepared for everything you thought you knew to be blown upside down. We couldn't be more different! I do understand wanting to weigh with your group for accountability (I did the same way back when I started for a few weeks- I was slimmer of the week every week for 6 weeks but eventually I just found that the groups chat and recipes just weren't compatible and by then I was ready to fly solo on BSD!) good luck anyway, don't forget to do your measurements. Grin

We've just arrived back from Devon, I've sat in the car and planned my menu for the week as starting tomorrow I'm back on plan, very strict keto-style like two weeks ago. I'm guessing I'll have gained several pounds while away so it's back to basics for me. Although I do have a night out with my old uni friends on Thursday and my parents 40th wedding anniversary on Saturday (although Saturday is a big do that I'm hosting so the menu is conveniently BSD compatible,...!)

Off the supermarket now to stock up ready for tomorrow's big relaunch!

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GreyBasket · 03/08/2019 15:30

Thank you @thenewaveragebear1983 and @PhoenixMama

I am definitely in mild keto, and my carb count is low. It is rather annoying that the calories and carb count can vary so much, but I am double checking everything in my calorie counter app.

I think I am buying new scales now!! I've put the ones you recommended into my amazon basket Phoenix. Maybe that will help work out where I am at 🤷🏻‍♀️

My measurement hasn't gone down that much but I only took a waist measurement.

In retrospect, looking back to four weeks ago, I should have started IF again for a few weeks and THEN added in extra exercise as I think that has muddled everything and slowed down weight loss. But I was just desperate to get going again. I am not going to slow down now on the exercise so I hope it starts making a difference on the scales.

Welcome @EttyG 👋🏻 Don't worry about feeling hungry. That goes super quick and you end up feeling full of energy. Do take more measurements than I did! I wish I had done my thighs and arms too.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 03/08/2019 17:47

Grey it's very odd that you're even in ketosis and not losing weight. Ketosis is losing weight, it's pure fat burning - so something must be going on somewhere. Silly question but are you weighing at the same time, same place every day? Always the same scales in the same spot (no joke, my bathroom floor can vary by about 5lbs and I eventually had to settle on my 'sweet spot' which is demarked by the intersection of 4 tiles. It's very scientific....); I also find that if I weigh immediately as I wake up I retain a bit of water- after 30 mins and a coffee etc I actually weigh less provided I haven't eaten, than when I first get up.

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Feelingfortyisntfun · 03/08/2019 20:35

Waveragebear I’m not sure I ever said thank you for your post the pod cast was brilliant. I listened to it jogging 😃
I did hurt my knee though but continued anyway and for the last two days just walked 10 k but my appetite set in after having salmon and eggs for breakfast (it was huge and with toast) then went for a walk and felt I could eat everything and I did, tried having sensible lunch (chicken and avocado wrap) but got home and ate too much. Annoyed a bit as I’m quite prone to doing this but oh well learn from every experience but my appetite seems quite revved. I’m also about to go away so I’m going to have to put the discipline in with diet prior (not long term strategy but don’t want to feel horrible on holiday - it’s an active one with all the kids so water and swimming wear involved... shuddering at the thought).

Thanks again for your inspiration. Interestingly not sure if this is an excuse because i don’t like it but HIT seems to hurt my knees more than gentle jogging.

Catch 22 though, heavier and more painful knees!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 03/08/2019 20:56

Feeling I've developed a real love for that series of podcasts, there's something so soothing about his voice. The one with Amelia freer is very good, another advocate of the Mediterranean diet (it's amazing his often the med diet is recommended now, even if it's not explicitly about diets) all about positive nutrition and food as nurturing. Very interesting and motivating. i agree with you about Hiit too, to some extent at least. I find if I do hiit workouts in my lounge I restrict my movements (probably subconsciously) and it gives me knee twinges, whereas when I do it outside or at a class I have that bit more space. Hope your knee recovers soon, make sure to rest it Smile

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 04/08/2019 07:36

I've just done my post holiday weigh in and it's not pretty Blush so it's day 1 back to basics for me. My period is nearly a week late which is not helping much and yesterday was an all out carb fest. I feel gritty and overfed and bloated today.

So today, I'm going to fast as long as possible this morning. Going for a quick run, then lunch will be eggs mayo and salad. Dinner will be a roast chicken but instead of the traditional I'm going to smother it in tandoori spices and serve it with salad. Lots of water, lots of steps.

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MozzchopsThirty · 04/08/2019 09:41

I massively fucked up yesterday
Was day 6 of fast 800 and doing really well

Then I went out, drank 4 pints of lager, champagne then ate a Big Mac and fries in bed 🙈🙈🙈

I've let myself down and I'm disappointed

PhoenixMama · 04/08/2019 09:44

Bear - you are always excellent at getting back on track. I hope you don't feel guilty - we're all allowed to have time off and be on holiday, it's the getting back to it that counts!

I totally missed the podcast recommendation - can you share again?

24 hours till the move and I'm nearly there! I also just finished my assignment for my MA - 8000 words in the ent weigh in end. Shock Off to do a last load of laundry and last weigh in till the new house (I'm expecting it to take a few days to figure out where best to weigh in the new place so want to have a baseline. Good luck today everyone!

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