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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Cheeeeislifenow · 27/01/2019 15:48

Hi @Ican

Here's a nice recipe I tried this week.
In a oven dish, like a cake tin size one. I used a silicone one.
Chip some ham, mushrooms, grated cheese, peppers and spinach.
Mix eight eggs salt and pepper. Pour over the veg etc.
Bake for 15 to 20 mins at 180 and then slice up into portions.
Yummy and very filling.
I love soup for lunch to keep it extra filling you could do chunky veg and add lentils.
I think leftovers are great for lunch too. I am making a turkey and butternut squash curry for dinner tonight, I'll have the leftovers tomorrow and add some. Fresh veg on the side.

Cheeeeislifenow · 27/01/2019 15:55

Wow
OohMrDarcy

That's a good long walk well done you.
My weigh day is tomorrow yikes. Haven't been able to do as much excercise this week as I have been really busy.
I did do a really strenuous arm workout the other day, my God it burned and I have plenty of walks. In. Plus my yoga in the morning.
But my clothes are starting to really feel looser
Which is great!
I also feel a lot more energetic every day. At one point I was so tired, I would get up with my 13 year old for school Fall on the couch and doze for another 30 minute s literally unable to move. I have been taking iron and a multi vitamin the last few weeks too and evening primrose oil too.
Hope you are feeling better BigChocFrenzy

Cheeeeislifenow · 27/01/2019 15:56

Well done @mozz
Sounds like you are in the zone.

Cheeeeislifenow · 27/01/2019 15:59

snail
You are so right it's important to remember this is a wol and not just a way of loosing weight.
Well done on your PB. I always feel much more energised after excercise.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/01/2019 16:05

Very fast reovery thx, cheee D&V & fever only 24 hrs, just a bit tired now.

Well done on resuming your walking, MrD
That worked so well for you before
especially if you can find a local walking / hiking group, to help encourage you

Well done on your trail race NSV, snail
Do you do Tough Mudder as well ?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 27/01/2019 16:07

Well done on your clothes and energy NSVs, cheee
That's lost fat and improved fitness. Great progress

OP posts:
mickeymacca · 27/01/2019 18:04

Hi all sorry been awol. Glad you’re feeling better bcf. I might try that recipe cheeee looks yum. I’m having a FD today ahead of weighing in tomorrow!

Icandothis2019 · 27/01/2019 21:29

Thanks for the advice and your recipe sounds right up my street @cheeeeislifenow.

HLBug · 27/01/2019 21:33

Glad you're feeling better - remember the rules now, no fasting until your gut has time to recover Wink

Both days this weekend I've been over TDEE by about 1000 cals. Doh. DH has been to "blame" buying yummy things little apple crumble and wine but I was the one who chose to eat / drink so much of them Blush So...although I got down to the magic 8st 10lb figure on Friday I'm not expecting to still be there tomorrow. Time to get back to business with a FD / Mini tomorrow. And I WILL be going to Zumba tomorrow evening for the first time in about six months

BigChocFrenzy · 27/01/2019 21:41

How did your Sunday FD go, mickey ?

I'll behave, bug Wink No fasting for me this week

A good FD should make up for your weekend
Enjoy your Zumba tomorrow too - once back in the regular dancing swing, you'll feel the fitness & toning benefit

OP posts:
mickeymacca · 27/01/2019 21:48

Hope the scales are kind to you tomorrow bug .. what’s your ultimate goal weight? Good FD today thanks bcf especially considering we went to IKEA. Ended up around 550. Happy with that

scruffybarnsley · 28/01/2019 07:07

Morning everyone, happy Monday!

A good weekend had over here. Probably my first weekend in about 3.5 years where I haven’t eaten/drank back all of my week’s deficit, so that's a good start.

Well done weekend fasters and weighers. Welcome Ican - well done on your 4lb loss! On a NFD lunch I tend to have soup or chicken & rocket salad with balsamic, or sometimes a panini depending on where I’m working.

Cheee - good luck for your weigh today. Nice to hear about your energy levels improving. I’m still waiting for the side effect! I’m sleeping very deeply (think being off the alcohol helps too) but need about another two hours a day I think!

Mickey and any other brave souls weighing on a Monday - hope you see the numbers you’d like to see!

Glad you’re feeling better bigchoc.

I’m fasting today so nothing until dinner and then chicken with a light leek sauce and veg. Will try and get out for a short run this pm too as weather supposed to be sunny, albeit FREEZING!

Have a good day everyone!

Cheeeeislifenow · 28/01/2019 07:10

Morning all good start to a Monday! A fantastic SV down another 3lb,that's 13 lb in total over 3 weeks and 21 to go together to my April Target and 1lboff of my fist stone, which is when I will treat myself to a new (second hand!) Dress!
Well done all of you fasters today.

scruffybarnsley · 28/01/2019 07:34

Wow Cheee that's amazing. Bloody well done!

mickeymacca · 28/01/2019 07:39

Thanks for the encouragement scruffy... cheee that is awesome massive well done 👏👏. I’ve weighed in at 11 stone 7 which is 2 off from last week but I had put on one last week so 3 in total. Not gonna lie was hoping for more but it’s still a loss so 🤷‍♀️. Have a good one y’all

RosaPalma · 28/01/2019 07:45

Hi all checking in bit feeling a bit off so am not commiting to FD just yet. Glad to see you are feeling better BCF. Some great results so congratulations to you all. Good luck to today's fasters and hope to see you all at the other end.

flatpackbox · 28/01/2019 08:10

I am going to fast today. I have got a long day at work, I don’t expect to get home until 9pm. My plan is a small pot of the Thai veg soup I can buy in Sainsbury’s for lunch and then a piece of hot smoked salmon and salad for dinner before my 6:30pm meeting, I might add some puy lentils if I am hungry. All things I can buy over the road without thinking about it.

Here’s to a successful day for all of us. I am actually thinking of doing fast 800 for a month to kick start things.

quackingduck222 · 28/01/2019 08:50

Good morning everyone.

Snail - Well done on your 10k trail.

BCF - I hope your on the road to recovery now.

Darcy- Well done on your 11.5k walk, that’s amazing

Cheese good luck for your weigh in today, sounds like your loosing lots of inches.

Mickey- I hope your FD went well yesterday. Well done on your loss, it does sometimes go slower than we would like but it’s going in the right direction.

Bug I’m crossing my fingers for your weigh in.

Scruffy - Well done on your great weekend.

Cheese - wow that’s a fantastic weight loss. Big well done

Flatpack - Good luck for your FD. That fast 800 is very similar to the BSD, I did 8 weeks before coming over to 5:2 and had very good success with it. Actually out of all the diets I’ve ever tried in my life that one was by far the best in terms of lbs lost.

I’ve had another really good week food wise, no junk consumed and I’ve stayed the same. It could be worse I could of eaten the junk and gained so never mind here’s to another good week.

Good luck to all the Monday fasters and the B2Bers.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2019 09:44

Congratulations on your SV, chee
Great progress and so near to your 1st stone mileston

That's a good FD, mickey especially avoiding the IKEA temptations
Well done on your SV
We all lose at different rates, depends on how much you have to lose, your height, tdee etc
So long as the trend over the weeks is down, it's a win

That's a weekend NSV, scruffy
Note what went well to enable that, so you can do the same next weekend
and make it into a longterm habit of eating at maintenance levels

Sounds like you are in a healthy groove, duck and are maintaining a good weight for your body

flatpack iirc, Mosely suggests in Fast 800 a 2 week period of BSD - daily low carb 800 cals -
followed by 5:2 (low carb) BSD, or indeed then normal 5:2

Depends on whether you think a VLCD kickstart is not too tough for you
and also whether you can get on with low carb - Fast800 won't work healthily unless it's lc

OP posts:
mickeymacca · 28/01/2019 09:56

Thanks bcf. Sorry you stayed the same duck I bet you’re due a nice loss soon.

Iamblossom · 28/01/2019 10:59

Morning all. Checking in for a FD, although I am going to find it very hard, starving already and have had the 0% yog I would normally save for lunchtime already.

Bug we are such twinnies. I too have had a weekend of at least 1000 cals over TDEE.

I did manage to be under TDEE yesterday however in an attempt to pull things back, which has resulted in me being 8 10 on the scales this morning so that is 4 pounds down overall over 3 weeks.

My ideal weight is 8 8 so I will be chuffed if I see that next Monday, and may continue to fast for a couple of weeks to give me some wriggle room for skiing. (I do 6:1)

I have booked a chiro apt for this afternoon BCF hoping she can help my back.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/01/2019 12:46

afternoon everyone and well done on your SVs mikey and cheee and iam and your STS quacking

Nfd here, was meant to be a fd but forgot I have an evening thing on at work so will have to do a B2B weds and thurs instead.... this week is going to be very difficult as have family staying fri-mon and its DS 8th birthday so parties, meals out and cake!!! then have to do it all again the next week for DH's birthday! Will just try and be as mindful as I can be.

In a few weeks it'll be my 1 year anniversary of 5:2, I've not weighed in properly since after xmas so I'm going to leave it until then and see what my 1 year total weight loss is Grin

Hope everyone has a good week Smile and good luck to all the monday fasters

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/01/2019 12:46

oh forgot to add my size 12 dress NSV - very happy :)

snailhunter · 28/01/2019 13:34

Checking in late for my FD today - all good so far! I haven't done a Tough Mudder, BCF, I just like trail running in lots of mud! The atmosphere around TM kind of puts me off, to be honest - the ones I've seen video of all have people yelling and shrieking encouragement and lots of music pumping and all that kind of thing, which I'm sure is brilliant for people who enjoy being part of an Event. I just like running quietly through the countryside by myself: even when I'm doing an organised race/run I tend to find a spot where there aren't too many people and go for the low-key races. Happy to be convinced if anyone here is a fan, though!

flatpackbox · 28/01/2019 15:04

Today is going well 👍🏻. Piece of hot smoked salmon and half a packet of MG put lentils is 400 Cals and my soup (which is now dinner) 225 Cals.

I also resolved to leave my desk! I do two really long days a week, 8 til 9 ish and sometimes find I have barely moved all day. So today I went for a walk in the sunshine, nearly three miles.

I think I can manage this Mon-Fri. Will see how motivated I feel at the weekend. I rarely drink so don’t have to worry about that but I do like cooking so I might eat normally at the weekend. We will see.