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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
OohMrDarcy · 25/01/2019 17:51

Well dinner was delicious, also added a carton of chopped tomatoes for extra goodness and the DC and I loved it so that's more goodness I can bung into my casseroles etc.

It's all gone a bit ghost ship here today- everyone checked out for an early weekend? Grin Speaking of weekend, I have a lovely portion of tonight's dinner left over for my lunch tomorrow- one of the bonuses when the kids are at their dad's!

Ta1kinPeace · 25/01/2019 18:34

Hi all,
its the end of another week
DH and I are doing full on home made burgers for supper
so they will include lettuce, tomatoes, onions and proper cheese
and a LOT less mayo than a pub one would have
we also do without chips
so its a healthy meal

darcy
adding beans to dishes is a really easy way to increase fullness without increasing calories much
DH and I have been adding beans to ALL our mexican type meals

GrannyPenny · 25/01/2019 18:40

Gosh you've been a chatty lot since I last checked in - plenty to catch up on. Am still plugging away and despite a few wobbles have stayed refined sugar free, deliciously sweet carby treat free and snack free. According to my calculations I've saved £48 so far, and have ordered some gold wire which should be enough to make two very small thin gold rings as a reward.

Along with many I am in the middle of the sneezy and sniffy lurgy which i'm hoping will be gone soon so no FDs this week.

Snail - I have 5 (yes 5!) sourdough starters on the go. Turned into a bit of an epic experiment of excitement and disappointment. None are ready yet and probably won't be until next week. Who knew there was so much science behind something so basic as a sourdough starter - no wonder the bread's so expensive.

Have a good weekend all.

MozzchopsThirty · 25/01/2019 21:01

Thank you so much for that advice

I've made a lot of soup tonight that's about 170 calories per portion so thought I might have that at lunch in work

How many calories is your average chicken breast or salmon fillet?? Could I have that with veg at night and still come in under 500?

Borris · 25/01/2019 21:39

Lots of success stories todaySmile. I have my own NSV to add. Went for a horse ride today - the first one in at least 12 months. Was nervous putting my jodhpurs on as they were very tight last time... and they fitted with ease! Good NFD today too

Borris · 25/01/2019 21:44

mozz not very helpful but mfp says 100g of salmon is 100cals. So you could have a 2-250g piece plus veg and that would work as a meal

PopGoesTheWeaz · 25/01/2019 22:54

a little late to the party but waitrose puts salmon at 142 kcal per 100g

MozzchopsThirty · 25/01/2019 23:05

Excellent thank you 😊 I watched the MM horizon doc tonight
I'm ready!!!!!!

Cheeeeislifenow · 25/01/2019 23:08

Aaaaarrrggghhhhh.
So we went to a family table quiz tonight, weeks and crisps all right under my nose all evening. So bloody hard to resist
Then Mr. Chee brings home a ma- hoosive cheese pizza and Chip s.
It's a NFD for me today but I really am not allowing myself that kind of junk.
It was so bloody hard, especially when people say unhelpful things like, "go on, that yourself, you deserve it, go on one slice won't hurt".
Errh when your bloody 5, stone over weight it certainly counts.
My husband cannot understand why I just can't eat "healthily".
He eats more than I do, has junk food and beer every week and never puts on a jot of weight.
Ah rant over, but I am proud of myself I did a sneaky kid week weigh in and I'm on the right track!

Cheeeeislifenow · 25/01/2019 23:11

borris

That is fantastic what a lovely thing to do!
OohMrDarcy
Ilove dinners like that, "throw it all I !". And always tastes twice as nice the next day!
Does anyone fast at the weekend?

BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2019 04:28

Well done on your jodhpurs NSV, Borris
That's lost bodyfat.

Mozz On FD, best to weigh the chicken or salmon - uless they are frozen with label.
Portion size, as sold, varies a lot.
180-200g would keep you feeling full

Great progress with defeating the sugar addition, granny
and all that money saved for your rings too, win-win

cheee people around us can be very unhelpful when trying to lose weight and build healthy habitts
Sometimes it seems they just want to keep us down, in our familiar old place 🤔
However, you decided to change, so ignore the ceir comments and go for it !

Sounds yum, MrD, tip

I'm posting at this ungodly hour as I have had a nasty lurge since yesterday afternoon: D&V & fever Sad
So, I'm drinking loads of water, but avoiding food
I think I'll try a bottle of Karamalz - more sugar than I would normally consider, but I need some calories that will stay put for a while and I can't face anything else.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 26/01/2019 09:00

Morning all

Cheese- very impressed with your determination, massive well done there!!

BigChoc, so sorry to hear you've got the lurgy... hoping you are back snoozing and recovering gently now

Welcome mozz, good luck and keep posting... loads of support here

Borris a clothes NSV is always a great one for feeling good so well done!

Granny, sounds like you are doing incredibly - enjoy making those rings!

TiP hope you enjoyed your burger!

I'm off to the hairdressers shortly, love my hairdresser she is the first one who ever made me feel good about my hair, been with her for over 3 years now and she is fab!

Happy weekend all

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/01/2019 09:23

Oh dear bcf hope the lurgy passes soon and that you feel better....Flowers

JcHcks · 26/01/2019 09:58

Hi all, random question. I've upped my water in take last few weeks as obv we're supposed to drink a lot more water but look at my body water according to my scales. Should I not be drinking so much or will this eventually go down? It's from the 11th jan till now. Previously it's been no where near that high

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss &  better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you
BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2019 10:09

Thanks, MrD, 43

Don't worry, JC
In fact, the ideal water level is at least 50% for most people, so you are heading in the right direction
The upper recommended limit for women is about 60%, men 65% and very athletic low bodyfat athletes can be an additional 5%

OP posts:
JcHcks · 26/01/2019 10:10

Oh so it's a good thing 😂 I just imagined this is causing weight gain and was hoping to lose it

Iamblossom · 26/01/2019 11:04

Well this weekend is a total write off with booze and snacks and lovely pub meals and apart from walking no exercise.

Back on the fast train on Monday.

Ta1kinPeace · 26/01/2019 15:54

Cheese
I do find the pressure to eat very irritating
get the but you are slim so you can get away with it
to which the reply is
I am slim because I choose NOT to eat that stuff

The fat people at the gym have a muffin with their coffee
The slim people do not
Its quite obvious if they only thought about it

snailhunter · 26/01/2019 17:39

Get well soon bcf! Sounds horrible. My 13yo is down with some vile coughing/fever/headache thing so no doubt it will make its way through all of us at some point...

NSV for me today: managed a 10K trail race in 62 mins - just over my PB of 58 mins but was in very challenging conditions - mud so sticky that it nearly pulled my trainers off at one point! When the scales aren't moving, I feel like it's important to remember all the other reasons why it's good to be a healthy weight.

MozzchopsThirty · 26/01/2019 19:08

Can you drink alcohol on NFDs??

I've started already, 6k run this morning and have eaten 1500 calories of good stuff (apart from one rich tea)

I've planned what I'm eating for my first FD
Quite excited Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2019 20:22

Mozz It's only on FDs that you can't have any alcohol or junk.

On NFDs, try to keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

  • NHS alcohol limits,
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,
  • have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
  • lots of water & veg
  • cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones
OP posts:
Icandothis2019 · 27/01/2019 10:02

Hi all,

Well done to everyone on their achievements this week. I'm new to 5:2 and only been doing a week or so, but according to my scales I've lost 4lbs !!

I was wondering what people eat on a NFD, especially for lunch and when at work. As my day starts quite early, I need some inspiration for lunch time. Last week I had ryvita and wafer thin ham, and a couple of tablespoons of yoghurt and strawberries is this ok on a NFD.

I have found FD quite easy to plan for, and also found I can quite easily wait til 11am -12pm for my first meal and then have something light and my main meal later on. I've decided to keep my FDs when I'm not at work as I find this easier.

Thanks

BigChocFrenzy · 27/01/2019 13:01

Well done on your SV, ican
Excellent start

re NFDs: Apart from the healthy 5.2 habits I posted, no real advice
NFDs should be maintenance days, not diet days, so roughly around your TDEE
You need proper meals on NFDs, since you should no longer be snacking - your lunch looks rather insubstantial to be sustainable longterm.
Also, add at least 2-3 portions veg.

For lunch I often have salmon or steak strips with a big mixed salad, vinaigrette, rye bread
Sometimes a big stirfy or a stew instead, each with protein and masses of different veg, plus a little brown / wild rice or quinoa.

If you can't manage hot food at work, sandwiches are ok - an open sandwich or open bagel is best -
with protein & veg filling (e.g. egg & cress / smoked salmon, cheese & spinach / chicken & peppers) and say some cherry tomato and cucumber on the side

OP posts:
Icandothis2019 · 27/01/2019 14:01

Thanks for the advice @Bigchoc, I will look to add to my lunch, the sandwiches/bagels you have suggested sound yummy. Just planning next week's meals now.. Smile

OohMrDarcy · 27/01/2019 15:21

Afternoon all

Ican congrats on the SV, I quite often have a sandwich or soup and crusty bread on NFD lunches.

Been for 11.5km walk today , and really enjoyed it- knackered now but felt really good to be back out and moving

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