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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Iamblossom · 28/01/2019 15:41

argh! Really struggling today. have had some crackers a boiled egg and a yoghurt.

40 min dog walk and 30 mins on cross trainer.

Got cricked about by the Chiropractor which I hoped will help my back but hurt at the time.

And I am cold.

Having a hot black tea. Prawn omelette and salad will be around 6.

Cheeeeislifenow · 28/01/2019 17:08

Hang in there @Iam nearly dinner time!
Thanks for all of your lovely words folks, very appreciated.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/01/2019 18:16

iam not long to go now, it is bloody brassic though!

Okay so work thing was just 'brown' food, cake and wine which I avoided so I think I'm switching it back to a fd but given extra milk should finish on about 620cals, that's acceptable isn't it? Next fd either weds or Thurs, not sure yet.... hang on in there Monday gang Smile

MozzchopsThirty · 28/01/2019 18:38

Hurrah managed my first FD 😊

I've had beetroot & carrot soup for lunch
Skyr yoghurt and raspberries
Less than 100g chicken breast and root veggies

And I did a 1 hour PT session with boxing at the end

Did I eat the right stuff?

Iamblossom · 28/01/2019 18:43

Looks pretty good to me Mozz well done.

Kitchen closed here on just under 600. Light mayo, the crackers and an options hot choc have pushed me over but I can live with 600.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/01/2019 18:47

Sounds good mozz well done. Occupy yourself this evening with a nice long bath and then an early night Smile

MazDazzle · 28/01/2019 18:59

Sounds like you had a great first FD Mozz! Well done.

Well done on resisting the brown food and wine fortythree. You have more willpower than me! Blush

Well done for getting some fresh air and exercise flatpack! I’m keep telling myself I need more fresh air, but it’s just so cold and dull and no fun with a toddler in tow. I’m going to try and up the miles once my DH’s home. He’s been away with work but is due home later in the week.

How are the Monday fasters doing? Hang in there! For the first time in ages I sailed through today’s FD. Had a black coffee first thing and water throughout the day. My PT session and rushing around after the kids kept my mind off food until dinner time. Had a turkey steak with Cajun seasoning served on a Caesar salad. It was delicious and filling.

I’m off to sip on a fruit tea!

MozzchopsThirty · 28/01/2019 19:13

Already in the bath 🤣 planning on getting into bed by 8.30 once I've picked ds1 up from rugby

You're all so good, it's inspiring to read

HLBug · 28/01/2019 19:21

Maintenance FD finishing on about 750 cals. DC and I spent the morning playing in the snow. Well - they "played" and I stood close by freezing my ass off. Brrrrr. I have not made it to zumba. But....snow Confused

OohMrDarcy · 28/01/2019 19:30

Evening

Been fasting today and at head office hence the lack of posts Grin

Had a subway healthier sandwich for lunch (rotissery chicken on 9 grain wheat) which has left me enough cals for a small omelette and a load of veg for dinner - yum

Will catch up properly in a mo!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2019 20:13

Well done on an excellent 1st FD, Mozz:
healthy menu with lots of veg and enough protein
plus HIIT type exercise

I suggest you drink another glass of water, before it's too near bedtime
Now make it a really healthy FD and plan your evening to have an early night and a good sleep

blossom No exercise for 5 days after chiro, even swimming or running
My German chiro told me this and she is right - makes a difference in the effectiveness of the treatment.

Congrats on your size 12 NSV, 43
Wow, you must tell us when you reach your 1 year 5:2 anniversary 😀

I'd always count up to 650 as a 5:2 FD

Well done on your FDs, 43, blossom, Mozz, bug, MrD

snail iirc Maz did a couple of Tough Mudders and found them great fun
You could presumably avoid the happy-clappy stuff and the odd bods running in mankinis 🤔 < painful ? >

flatpack That's good you enjoyed your walk in the fresh air.
How's the FD going now ?

You can tailor IF and BSD fasting schedule to suit your lifestyle;
Why not try 2:5 BSD for a couple of weeks if you want a kickstart,
i.e. daily low carb, with M-F 800 cals, Sat+Sun without counting cals but still low carb or it won't work so well

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2019 20:15

Sounds a tasty FD menu, MrD
Now glug some more water, remember.

Planning any more long walks this week ?

Are you fasting today, cheee ?

Maz How about another Tough Mudder if you miss the outdoor runs ?

OP posts:
Borris · 28/01/2019 21:04

Well done flat pack. Sounds a healthy day.

Blossom - hope you’ve hung in there. I’ve not had a prawn omelette for ages. Thanks for reminding me.

43 - I’m impressed by your willpower. Is brown food choc and cake?

Mozz - sounds like a good FD. How did you find it?

Maz your Caesar salad sounds yum. I love it when a fd feels easy. Mine has gone quickly today and i now feel pleasantly full

Bug - you’ve got snow!! I shan’t tell my dd as she’ll be jealous!

Borris · 28/01/2019 21:07

My FD went well. Miso soup and sugar free jelly for lunch. Veg stir fry with rice noodles and yoghurt for tea.

I’m out for a leaving meal tomorrow so not doing my normal b2b. I’m planning on fasting until the meal and am driving so no alcohol.

FD2 will be Friday this week. So don’t know whether to weigh in on Saturday or just to skip it this week andweigh next Wednesday after my
Normal mon-tues b2b.

flatpackbox · 28/01/2019 21:13

Thank you Maz.

Fine here just home, 9500 steps which is double what I usually manage on a long day in the office, 66 active minutes (brisk walking). In fact on any day I am at work the most I manage is 4500.

625 calories today, just added the soup. Lots of herbal tea as my office was cold. I would have liked an apple at some point but I didn’t have one and couldn’t be bothered to go out for one.

I was thinking of that BCF, I am sure I will manage it if I shop and plan ahead.

OohMrDarcy · 28/01/2019 21:14

No really long walks this week as got the kids, but do walk the youngest too and from school weds - friday (plus monday / tuesday mornings).... thats 30 mins each walk (15 mins each way).

This weekend I'm debating getting the kids up early and taking them for a walk up a local famous hill to see the sunrise - will depend on the weather I guess as potential snow / ice due. But its a beautiful walk there and we could take hot chocolate and blankets etc - now its in my head I really fancy it, though the eldest is nearly 12 and therefore doesn't 'do' early starts if she can help it!

Fabulous work to all the other Monday fasters - nearly finished rocking our first month of 2019 fasting Grin

Blossom - I have faith that you made it, well done surviving a tough FD!

43 - great job avoiding brown food and wine! And size 12 too - fabulous!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2019 21:46

Well done on the FD, Borris
That's good planning for the leaving meal; you'll be fine. Enjoy.

I suggest a Saturday weigh-in, since it's the morning after FD2
Then have your usual weigh-in next on Wednesday

Well done, flatpack on the FD and the walking NSV
Now you know how to keep walking boosted and fell fitter

MrD A cold flannel helps WE wakeups 😂 so they can enjoy the lovely walk with you.
It's good for all of you to be out in the fresh air, quality time together

Just plan Friday evening so they have an early night - and you have an extra hour to chill

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/01/2019 21:47

Brrr bug you must have been freezing, I've always hated the snow even as a kid, could never understand the excitement.

Mmm maz your dinner sounds delicious

Ooh how many cals for the sandwich mrd I always just get a salad as I feel it takes me longer to eat.

I will do bcf I would so love for it to coincide getting into healthy bmi but two tricky weeks to navigate first!! Kitchen closed on 616 so I'm counting it as fd#1 Smile

Yes borris the university I work at excels itself at laying on the most colourless, beige looking platters.... think sandwiches, spring rolls, pork pies, sausage rolls, samosas etc then shitloads of cake not a bit of salad or a vegetable in sight Grin BTW what rice noodles do you use?

Yes iam, as mrd said hope you made it through okay Smile

The walk sounds wonderful mrd so long as there's no snow Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/01/2019 21:48

Forgot to say enjoy the meal borris

snailhunter · 28/01/2019 22:08

Blimey, loads of successful FDs here! Checking mine in too - nithing till 6 then beef stir fry with tons of veg. Had a great interval training session this morning too. Maybe I should go for a Tough Mudder if only to gawp at these mankinis...

Bracing myself for tomorrow - big load of snow forecast but hooray, I don’t have to go anywhere so can enjoy it from my garden office. Have put loads of bird food out - they are so lovely to watch. Small pleasures!

Borris · 28/01/2019 22:24

I use Amoy straight to wok rice noodles. 167 cals per portion and by the time I’ve added loads of veg it looks like a really big plateful

scruffybarnsley · 29/01/2019 07:14

Hi all, just checking in for day 2 of B2B.

Weighed this morning and am down a bit again. When I know I'm on it properly I tend to weigh most days but only record the lower measurements in my app so there's a nice motivating downward trend, but I know it’s around 5lbs in about 3 weeks, which is basically Christmas nearly gone so that’s helpful. Looking forward to the next chunk of chunk going!!!

Yesterday was fairly easy and squeezed in a short (freezing) jog too. M&S meal tonight with veg or salad and probably enough left for a yoghurt. Need to drink more water today too.

43 - you are much stronger than I. Beige food is my nemesis!

Mozz - you’ve gone all in for your first day, and handled it really well. Sounds like this will suit you!

Well done all Monday's gang. Tuesday here we come!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 29/01/2019 07:19

Enjoy watching the birds snail I only getting big fat pigeons in my garden...

Thanks borris

Excellent sv scruffy Smile good luck Tues fasters

Iamblossom · 29/01/2019 07:21

🤔 still 8 10 so no weight shifted from yesterday’s Fast day but I think that is my body resetting after my ridiculously debauched weekend so that’s fine.

OohMrDarcy · 29/01/2019 07:25

43, it was 320 something... obviously depends what you have on it but just the chicken with lettuce and cucumber was fine.