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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
HLBug · 24/01/2019 20:19

FD/Mini closing on about 850 calories. Been a loooong cooooold day.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2019 20:26

Well done on your FD, MrD and on your discipline

"You can have it tomorrow" - if you still even want it Wink

Well done on your FD, JC, slinky, snail and any other fasters

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2019 20:28

Welcome, Mozz 🙂

FD Meals
As pp have said, you could either just have supper,
or retrain your habits so you have e.g. smaller 150 meal of say soup and a 350 meal that is protein & masses of veg - cutting out creamy sauces and starchy carbs helps here.

FD rules: no alcohol, no junk - so no biscuits, cake, chox, crisps etc
Avoid fruit juice, dried fruit and sugary breakfast cereals - these would spike insulin & hunger
If you take milk & sugar in hot drinks, include them in your calorie count

What helps: Plan meals around protein & masses of veg
Several site recipe links in the OP under "How To Start"

NFDs

Try to keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

  • NHS alcohol limits,
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,
  • have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
  • lots of water & veg
  • cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones

Exercise

On FDs, best to avoid long steady state cardio, because these would use your glycogen stores more for fuel and fasting would deplete those

So, best FD exercise is HIIT or weight lifting / resistance
I recommend keeping FD exercise to within 1 hr, at least until you have fully adapted to fasting and feel confident

Alernatively, until you are used to fasting, you could keep the FDs as your weekly training rest days

OP posts:
Cheeeeislifenow · 24/01/2019 23:14

I'm so tired and off to bed but just wanted to check in. Successful FD ending on 433.
Spent all evening prepping meals for tomorrow as I am busy.
So I even resisted my super cheesey scones.
Good luck to everyone fasting tomorrow.
Before I fall asleep zzz zzz z z z

scruffybarnsley · 25/01/2019 06:25

Weighed this morning and just under 2lbs down so that's 4lbs in the 2 weeks I've been back properly - which has included my birthday - I'm happy with that! If I can do another 2lbs in the next week (doable if I keep off the alcohol, I think) then I'll be back to pre-Nov weight (that's when Christmas started...!) and can actually start losing properly. Can't wait.

Finished at about 750 last night but I'll take that as B2B and the extra was most all veg and all in one meal. Another early night too!

Good luck to those fasting today.

JcHcks · 25/01/2019 07:22

Well I'm a pound down this week which is 5 in total. I feel like my work trousers feel loser but I don't know if it's just in my head cause I know I'm on a diet. Would a notice a difference after a 5 pound weight lost?

Cheeeeislifenow · 25/01/2019 07:29

Well done scruffy and jc , you can absolutely feel a 5 lb loss, I felt it on my face immediately. Well done guys.
Good luck every one fasting today.

snailhunter · 25/01/2019 07:45

Bah, still stuck at 10st 1lb. Hmmmm. I was really enjoying not MFPing but perhaps it might be an idea to pop back on for the next week to see if it makes a difference.

JcHcks · 25/01/2019 08:03

Really stupid question does it go for example 10stone11, 10stone12, 10stone13 and then 11 stone, or does it goes 10stone12 then straight to 11 stone. I'm being told two different things!!

Iamblossom · 25/01/2019 08:09

10 stone 13 is deffo a thing....

JcHcks · 25/01/2019 08:13

Thanks lamb I thought it was too but my friend said it wasn't! In that case I've lost an extra pound without even releasing it! haha

Cheeeeislifenow · 25/01/2019 08:13

Yeah 10 13is correct,I know because I googled this. 14 lb to a stone

flatpackbox · 25/01/2019 08:15

14 lbs in a stone so 10st 13 and then 11st.

FD here,I had an awful day yesterday food wise. We were at hospital from dawn til dusk and I ate rubbish all day, sandwich with tons of mayonnaise, wasn’t apparent when I bought it 😑, dried cranberries (probably full of sugar) and to top it off the ikea cafe on the way home. I have never been to an ikea store. The food was 🤮.

So definitely a fast day for me 2 scrambled eggs for breakfast and home made minestrone for dinner, with homemade focaccia for everyone else!

flatpackbox · 25/01/2019 08:15

I am such a slow typist 😂.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/01/2019 08:30

Morning everyone and yes 10 13 is definitely a thing jc
Well done on the SVs scruffy and jc Smile

snail that is frustrating, any other reason that could explain it, imminent totm?

flat that food doesn't sound too bad considering, good luck on your FD today.

NFD here and I'm skipping breakfast (had a skinny latte to put me on) then have chicken salad, yogurt and a couple of satsumas for lunch, dinner, not too sure yet but protein and lots of veg, then off to see Frank Turner so a couple yeah right of beers at the gig Grin but hopefully no pizza on the way home!!

OohMrDarcy · 25/01/2019 09:25

Morning all

Scales showing me 2lb down this morning which is 13lb total and into the next stone bracket!!! Very pleased with this....

BigChoc I could do with your digestive trick mind please! I think for some reason everything has just slowed down - drinking plenty of water and having fibre but nothing is reaching the other end if you get my meaning! Did some reading on it last night and had a teaspoon of olive oil before bed - which... FYI - is GROSS on its own, and had a cup of tea before the school run walk this morning and still nothing.... think I am entering day 4 now.

JC and Scruffy well done on the SVs!

Snail - never mind on the STS... keep going - you never know what your body is doing and might be gathering itself for a big loss to come soon.

Good luck for Friday FD flat!

Cheeeeislifenow · 25/01/2019 09:25

@flatpack is your username related to your love of the Ikea canteen!!
Live their meat balls. That really doesn't sound like an awful days food at all

Cheeeeislifenow · 25/01/2019 09:26

OoohMrDarcy

Have you tried dried apricots?

snailhunter · 25/01/2019 09:42

Yes, I have no idea what my body is doing at the moment re TOTM, 43 - had it last week bang on time, but with none of the warning signs I usually get. So I can't blame it, I suppose! Well, I shall keep on keeping on. You're right mrdarcy, there may be a whoosh due. On the bright side, I may not have lost anything but I haven't gained anything either!

OohMrDarcy · 25/01/2019 09:46

no I haven't cheese, got some though as the kids like them so might have a few with lunch!

scruffybarnsley · 25/01/2019 09:51

Snail - last time I lost weight on this WoL I went for about 6 weeks without weight changing at all but my body shape changed massively. Don't think I would have believed it if it wasn't happening to me as I was a bit like "but where's it going if I'm not losing weight?!". Our bodies are very odd and if you know you're sticking to things properly (MFP may help to be sure of that) then just trust and keep on going.

I was supposed to go for a run this morning but have woken up feeling really jetlaggy and weird, like a hangover but no alcohol last night. Can't decide whether a run will make me feel better or worse! 10mins to decide or my moment will pass!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/01/2019 10:28

I think I remember you saying previously that you are peri-menopausal snail ? very frustrating isn't it, I think I'm just starting it also, continuous sore boobage isn't good Sad

Well done on your SV mrd and I hope you get moving soon Grin coffee always does it for me....

Mmmm chee well done on resisting cheesy scones

Hope you feel better soon scruffy

flatpackbox · 25/01/2019 10:28

Cheeee, not love 😂 I did my first ever ikea order at Christmas when I kitted our Dd’s room in Hemnes furniture.

I am a serial name changer (Daily Mail once published something I was on and it could have been outing) but usually something with ‘box’ and I happened to be looking an yet another flat packed box when I name changed.

Didn’t have time for me omelette so I haven’t eaten yet !

OohMrDarcy · 25/01/2019 10:43

Random question time - whats peoples thoughts on kidney beans in a beef casserole? Got the casserole on the go with celery / leek / carrot / swede in .... and something in my brain is saying to just chuck in a tin of kidney beans! This has never been done in my house before!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2019 11:30

Well done on your SVs, scruffy, J, MrD

There are 14 lb to a stone

For most people, a 5lb loss results in about a 1" loss around the middle

snail I'd give it 3 weeks before you say you have to mfp:
weight varies within the week and from week to week, so you could easily have had a small loss which is hidden by the blip.

Go for the kidney beans, MrD - I often add them to a stew or soup, to increase nutrients & fibre
They are an excellent replacement for starchy carbs, to help lower the GI of a meal and keep you feeling fuller for longer.

Mosely recommends having beans / lentils / peas most days, because they are very healthy and help stabilise blood sugar.
They also naturally contain fibre, which can gently help avoid constipation
Drink lots of water with the meal.

re Constipation:
Do NOT add fibre supplements (unless prescribed by a Dr) or extra bran - STOP if you take these - because they often bung you up

Also, for the same reason, don't add huge portions of fibrous food to your diet, just beans in this meal is enough change for the day

The FDs, with much less food volume, but 2-3 litres water are your best bet to clear the tum.

Recipe for NFD - if you are still bunged up:

  • 1 tbsp olive oil
  • 1 teasp lemon juice
Best to take on an empty tum, so early morning or a few hrs after eating.
OP posts: