5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Welcome, pot 🙂 and well done on a very good 1st FD
Military fitness is excellent, if you can resume that

One of our 5.2 mantras is "Little pickers need bigger knickers" !

If you felt weak before, that might have been due to insufficient protein and / or too high carbs
Also, you may have unstable blood sugar, in which case Mosely advises 3 meals on FDs

So, I recommend:

• Try Mosely's 5:2 BSD, which combines Mediteranean low carb with fasting - the FDs have 800 cals

• FDs & low carb are a powerful combination, hence the higher allowance is definitely recommended

• 3 meals per day on this, so you have breakfast.

• His Mediteranean low carb is different to standard low carb in that it is specifically designed to stabilise blood sugar
  So he recommends most days you have lentils / peas / beans
  and also enjoy full fat Greek yoghurt often
  On FDs, boost protein - his FDs are high protein, maybe more important than fat on FDs, to feel strong.

• Additionally, feeling weak while fasting is often due to lacking salt, with the lower food volume.
  So, on FDs, have a teasp Marmite (glug like medicine) mid-morning and mid-afternoon.
  The NFD after an FD, first thing drink water and glug a teasp Marmite

TiP Can you ask your DH not to cook on your FDs while you are around 😏 - or maybe even fast with you, since it stopped his IBS.

pisspot I’ve had low blood sugars before so I was nervous about 5:2 but it seems to be ok as long as I don’t eat a carb heavy meal the night before and eat enough protein. I’ve had symptoms of hypoglycaemia with my pregnancies and when I had to do night shifts I actually tested my bsl one night and it was properly low. However, my night shift food intake was pretty much continuous toast so that, plus cortisol changes likely contributed.

Welcome PotPourri

TiP how did the rest of your day go?

Weighed in after a b2b to find a half pound loss, down to 75.3. I get a bit frustrated by these quite little losses but 1) it's not a gain (thank goodness!) and 2) when I look at my graph over time it's consistent with how I lose, and clearly over a longer period it adds up (or adds down, I guess). Also ended up with an odd dinner yesterday as my food shopping didn't turn up! Had a 400 calorie dinner of instant noodles and an enormous pile of veg - not ideal, but the best I could do with raiding the cupboards.

DD is with her nanny share today so I'll be trying to get some work done!

The thing with DH is that he is built like a brick outhouse
so he fasts all day (as we both have done for years) and polishes off a 1000 calorie supper - and loses weight
whereas if my fasting supper is over about 600 I put it back on
SO
My plan is that I'll cook on fast days and plan meals that I can have less of

Thanks for the info about snacking, I know snacking is definitely where I fall down. And it's not even hunger, when. Am busy I don't need to snack at all.
Had my first FD yesterday I actually ended up only having one meal but just a small snack at lunch because I didn't have time.
B:Lemon water
L:2 slices of Turkey
D: slice of Spanish omlette,lettuce, cucumber, sweet corn,coleslaw homemade from shredded cabbage carrot onion and natual yogurt and some cottage cheese. I have to say it was worth the wait it was yummy. Heading out for a friends birthday Saturday night, we are going to an Asian street food place and drinks. So I shall only have one meal that day.
@BigChoc can I ask, as you are a most knowledgeable fountain, what are your thoughts on Apple cider vinegar? I have heard good things about it's stabilising sugar levels? I was thinking of including it in the am with my morning lemon water.

Hi @pisspot welcome!

Morning all

NFD here - curry tonight with friends which will be tricky, so I'm keeping to minimum before then and planning to drive so I don't drink.

FD tomorrow

Excellent FD y'all! I didn't do a mini yesterday because it was too hard after b2b!! But I was well under my tdee at 1200 cals for the day. Aiming for a mini today, after lunch will be at 400 ish so it's totally feasible to finish the day sub-1000

@essential as long as the scales are consistently going down that's all that matters. I tend to go up by 1.5kg over a weekend then take off 2kg a week maybe 2 or 3 weeks of the month, and maintain the other two so it's slow progress. But it's progress!

Hi all, thanks for your supportive messages.

Thanks for the piriton tip Harriet, I thing I have got child piriton at home so might try that. Several days of birthday celebrations sounds fun 🎉🎉.

I managed to fast yesterday but found it hard, today I have just eaten a small baked potato with cheese (very odd experience of walking into the deli and H being the only other person in the queue, I felt like something in an Alanis Morrisette song) and will be making soup with chunky vegetables and butter beans for dinner.

I have realised that on NFDs my appetite has altered. I am definitely not eating as much as I would normally eat and I didn’t think I ate too much before.

I am still walking four miles a day, actually taking a much longer route to and from work to make sure I manage it. I would have never made the time to do that before.

cheee < the fountain speaks 😂 >

Reports suggest cider vinegar may slightly help to improve insulin metabolism, but there is no real proof.
I read that the most effective way to use it is to help the overnight fast.
So, mix 1 tbsp in a glass of water sometime after supper (rinse with mouthwash right afterwards, but wait at least 15 minutes before you clean your teeth)

Box Well done on persisting with a tough FD
I recommend you boost protein, especially on FDs
Fish & eggs are excellent choices (if you aren't veggy) otherwise add e.g. tofu

That's good planning for the curry supper, MrD

Well done on your SV, Hummus
The longterm trend is downwards, so relax

Weight loss can sometimes happen after NFDs, not always immediately after FDs

I suggest you keep an eye on what you eat & drink on NFDs, in case you are eating back the FD deficit
If you keep 5:2 healthy habitson NFDs, even at weekends .....

• NHS alcohol limits, NEVER snack / graze between meals, sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks -

...... then you are progressing at the rate that suits your body.

Having a really manic half term here & my mum is ill so I had to do a mercy dash to help her with the dr ... bit stressful ... I’ve kind of lost track of the thread ... sorry 😐

FD:
2x coffee with milk - 100
Sardines & veg stew - 330
Miso soup - 30

Not feeling hungry but I am majorly stressed & would normally fall into a pile of toast & feel sorry for myself.

Good things:
NSV - I had to buy new bras as my old ones (which needed a bra extender at Christmas) were way too big, ditto knickers!
Exercise - have done 30-40 minutes of aerobic exercise (heart rate up, breathless, sweaty) every day for over a week now. I have various old injuries so that’s a bit scary for me!
Have saved up my no drinking money from the last few months to re-up my Botox tomorrow.

Hopefully I’ll feel more cheerful tomorrow!

I hope your mum gets better soon, Lania

Well done on your FD at such a stressful time
also on your bra, exercise & alcohol NSVs

• that's all good progress

Good evening, do you have room for another newbie? I scared myself reading about height/waist ratios, I have about 4 stone to lose. I've done my first fd today, two meals, a brunch of 150 and dinner 350. I'm pretty hungry so am off to bed soon. What site do you get your calories from?

Hope your mum recovers soon @lania

Welcome @kayem! Sounds like a great start!

Kitchen closes on 902 for me, happy with that as pre holiday mini

Hi there @kayemm welcome to the gang
MyFitnessPal is probably the easiest to use as the app on your phone means that you can track all day rather than having to frantically remember at the end of the day.

MFP is really helpful. I’m on the 800Fast Diet and it’s going well. I don’t track my exercise on it as it add it into left over calories, so I do that on Fitbit.

I think Time Restricted Eating is very beneficial.

lania and welcome kayemm.

I ended up not eating anything apart from the small baked potato with cheese I had for lunch yesterdays I guess it was OK even if it wasn't planned as a FD.

I am out for lunch today but will plan on soup or a salad of some sort.

People are noticing I have lost weight. I attempted to sort out my scales last night but realised that I had got the wrong batteries so no weighing yet for me.

Morning all

Did my damage control weigh in today and its not pretty. With my birthday and last nights curry I'm showing a 3lb gain.... I suspect more than 1lb of that is water and the rest curry.... but thats me staying accountable and not letting it derail - I've got to nail this FD today to minimise that damage, and might do a weekend FD too - we shall see.

Food today shall be freezer leftover chilli I think - worked out at around 380-400 cals so I'll stick to water / tea with a splash of milk other than that... should give me a nice long slot to digest that curry (which was delicious by the way)

Welcome @kayemm - I think most of us use myfitnesspal
Forgot to say on Tuesday I took the kids off for a 5.25 mile walk in the new forest which was LOVELY. My Dsis got me a book of walks as part of my birthday present with some new walking poles so I shall be making good use of those, told the kids we will be exploring new places regularly- probably once a month with them, as well as my walks when they are off at ExH's.

Welcome kay 🙂
and well done on your 1st FD

To feel fuller on FDs:

• Boost protein - especially fish or eggs - & reduce / cut out starchy carbs
• Pile your plate with non-starchy veg
• Cut out any sugary treats, e.g. biscuits
• Have a low cal hot savoury drink, e.g. Beef Bovril or miso soup

Well done on your compliments NSV, Box
Those lost inches are lost bodyfat

O4FS Remember, on FDs - which is every day atm for you on Fast800 - do NOT allow any extra calories for exercise

Mosely and fasting researchers like Longo recommend daily 12:12 (12-hour eating window) as a healthy system, in combination with FDs

Don't worry, MrD
That gain after a feast will be mostly undigested food and retained water from excess carbs
So, a good dump or two and a good FD should get rid of most of that
Sensible NFDs with reasonably healthy food, plus a 2nd FD should zap any remainder

Keep drinking lots of water to support your digestion and fat-burning

That was a brilliant bday present from your DSIS

it was - I was over the moon! She was really nervous in case I didn't like

Darcy The Forest is lovely at this time of year. So much to explore. A brilliant pressie.