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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
OohMrDarcy · 18/02/2019 18:19

Thanks all,

Well done to all the Monday tasters.

Went for a toby carvery for lunch today so I got plenty of veggies in, had an ice cream for pudding. This evening we've had birthday cake and custard and I'll have a glass of prosecco tonight. Feels like I've managed pretty reasonably.

Laniakea · 18/02/2019 18:20

indulgent long weekend sounds good Grin

I'm done. In an effort to increase the protein I sacrificed the milk in my coffee for an extra egg in my shakshouka ... it was worth it, I haven't been hungry at all. I also added loads of dried chilli to ward off the cold - not sure that worked so well!

2x coffee no milk - 0
'shakshouka' (2 eggs & a can of ratatouille) - 330
miso soup - 30

I'm not doing a B2B tomorrow but will probably fast again on Wednesday.

Hope everyone is having a good day!

harriethoyle · 18/02/2019 18:29

@lania it's 28 degrees and I just got sent the lunch for the bottomless brunch we're going to on Friday Grin

Borris · 18/02/2019 19:54

I'm struggling to get motivated... But ... I've had a good FD today and will b2b with tomorrow. Then I'm away visiting the family the rest of half term. So I've decided not to weigh either this weds or next (will b2b next mon-tues too) as it'll make me feel worse and then start with gusto again the week after

Off to catch up on the hundred or so posts I've missed!!!

nolongersurprised · 18/02/2019 23:41

Hi everyone!

Fasting today, is 930 tues morning here and I’m already hungry and grumpy but I think TOTM is coming up. My fast days are Tuesdays and Thursdays, Tuesdays are my day off work so are busy with washing, shopping, chores etc so once I’m in the swing of things I’ll be fine. I think it’s the whole day stretching ahead that’s daunting!

The pest man is here now (essential where we live in Australia) so I’m moving things away from skirting boards etc so he can spray and noticing that the floors could use a good clean!

nolongersurprised · 19/02/2019 00:09

Update: apparently I can’t wash the floors for at least 3 days. So that’s good!

BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2019 00:13

Well done, Monday fasters.

That's good with the protein, Lania
Also, eat up to your full 500 calories, to avoid feeling tired & starving the next day - it can happen on a busy day.

Hi surprised
Good luck with your fasting
I hope the pesty man / pest man got rid of any creepy-crawly horribles

OP posts:
Boxlikeahare · 19/02/2019 08:22

Hi everyone- I didn’t do so well yesterday unlike most of you 🏆. Not disastrous but not a proper FD either, 850 Cals.

Started well today with a spoonful of natural yoghurt, berries and pumpkin seeds. Let’s see how it turns out - I will cook something healthy tonight - I just need to get through the 8-6:30 bit Smile.

Still in pain and tired because it is waking me in the night (am also in the middle of H leaving/divorcing which doesn’t help with sleeping well) but at least I find work a positive distraction.

EssentialHummus · 19/02/2019 08:31

Happy belated birthday, MrD

Ooh harriet I'm jealous of that weather - 28 degrees sounds amazing!

surprised I love the official advice not to wash floors, if only he'd said to lay off the dishes and laundry too eh? Grin

box this sounds very difficult, I hope you're taking good care of yourself Flowers.

I'm on day 2 of a b2b here (and I think my b2b days are numbered, finding them much harder as the weight comes down). Weighed in this morning and have maintained, which is fine after quite an indulgent weekend. 75.5/11st 12.

Good luck box, no and anyone else fasting today.

harriethoyle · 19/02/2019 08:53

@boxlike try taking two piriton before bed, will make you nicely drowsy and it's easier to get back over when you wake in the middle of the night. Hope you get things sorted too xx

harriethoyle · 19/02/2019 08:55

@Essential we're almost exactly the same weight, I'm73.4kg this morning was 75.5 on Saturday night! What's your target?

EssentialHummus · 19/02/2019 09:20

Wow harriet that’s a good whoosh there! I’d like to be at/below 70 I think. I was very healthy at 65 for a long time in my twenties, so I think I’ll get to 70 and reassess. What about you?

harriethoyle · 19/02/2019 09:28

I put on weight incredibly quickly @essential but thankfully lose it similarly fast! Yes, 70s my target too although I got to 71.9kg just before Christmas and felt SUPER slinky so really anywhere in that region would be ok. I'd like to be comfy in my skinny jeans which are a 28" waist and they're currently just a bit tight... Big birthday on 2 March and the celebrations go on for several days but once that's over, I'm going for 70 with renewed enthusiam and commitment! X

BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2019 10:31

box 850 is fine when you're going through such a difficult time
I hope things get better for you soon 💐
Concentrate on self-care today, with nutritious food to support your bod

Hummus Many people find b2b too tough, so maybe try non-consecutive days next week

Well done on your SV, Harriet
Excellent progress

Good luck to any Tuesday fasters

Horrible rainy day here, so no Rhine walk or jog, just abs class tonight

OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 19/02/2019 11:17

harrie and essential - how tall are you? I started at 75.5 but want to get back to 65. I was 60-63 before children but settled back to 65-66 after the 4th which felt about right - could still eat ‘normally’. My extra weight has gone on over a few years, too much snacking and too much eating on the run. I’m 170 cm so 65 kg is slim but not skinny, plus I have quite a small frame so with added weight I look constantly bloated.

I actually had a great FD, in the end. Once the pest man had taken his sprays away I was so busy with house and family related chotes, followed by picking up the children that I didn’t eat till 7, which was my first meal of the day and my first all day fast (barring some milk in coffee). I had an egg, small bowl of lentil soup, 1/2 slice whole meal toast with the soup and a whole heap of broccoli and some raw carrot.

It’s probably 650 all up for the day once I add in the milk from the coffee but I’m not ready to remove that yet and so far I haven’t needed to. I’m hoping for around 69kg but will weigh after Thursday’s FD. I work the other week days but Thursdays I finish early so I have breakfast (2 eggs) and then skip lunch.

Good luck to the fastest just staring their day, I’m off to bed with a book.

nolongersurprised · 19/02/2019 11:18

box I’ve just read your post, sorry you’re having a rough time.

harriethoyle · 19/02/2019 11:19

@nolonger I'm 5 foot 5 with ginormous boobs and arse!! 🤣

nolongersurprised · 19/02/2019 11:32

I’m 5 foot seven but through my 20s I barely needed to wear a bra, I hope my last 4-5 kg comes off my stomach and not my boobs. I’m a C cup now.

harriethoyle · 19/02/2019 11:45

@nolonger I've got FF's. My bras are like a couple of buckets held together with rope! 🤣

BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2019 12:27

Well done on your FD, surprised
Mosely and most other fasting experts recommend no snacking between meals

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 19/02/2019 12:29

no 5’8. It’s baby weight here too, or rather middle of the night breastfeeding biscuit weight Blush. I’m also mindful that at some point we’ll start ttc DC2, so I need to have strong healthy habits in place even if I can’t fast.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2019 12:29

Why we shouldn't snack

Snacks were popularised by BIg Food around 1980, to increase profits

Even "healthy" ones like fruit or dipping veg - keep insulin raised and hence reduce the time in which your body can burn fat.
And the most common / tempting snacks are not even healthy

Also, human studies show that most people consume more calories in a 24-hour period if they snack,
because the reduction in meal size (if any) is usually less than the calories contained in all the snacks.

You can lose despite snacking, but it will be slower than without.
So, have any treats - snack food, lattes, alcohol, even fruit - as part of a meal.

^Broad definition of a snack is that it is less than 4 hrs away from a meal.

Snacks are only ok for those who need to gain weight,
e.g. underweight DC - which very few are in the West

Snacking has caused a fundamental change for much of the population, compared to many millennia of evolution - almost no traditional eating culture includes snacking.

Each 24 hour day is now insulin-dominant instead of fasting-dominant, see graphs from Dr Jason Fung:

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss &  better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you
5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss &  better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you
OP posts:
TalkinPeece · 19/02/2019 14:29

Ugh. Checking in to stop myself heading in the wrong direction.
Need to get back to strict fasting
but being married to an excellent cook makes it tricky.
Shall kick myself up the backside Grin

PissPotPourri · 19/02/2019 21:00

Evening all, may I join?
I did 5:2 after the birth of my second ds (5 years ago) and found it to be by far the most effective and sustainable diet I've done. However I suffered so badly with the hanger... Not just on my fd but the day after too. In the end even I got fed up with my bad temper.
Since then, ive had moderate success with low carbing but get fed up with the plateaux. Think I want to try combining the two, although low carbing less pedandically, as the lack of carbs really helped stabilise my blood sugar which I suspect was my main mood swing problem. I used to get shakes and sweats too, and was sometimes incredibly weak the morning after a fd. Really want to avoid the same again!
Anyway...I don't have much to lose but want to get trimmer for summer. I'm 5 ft 9 and 11 stone 1. I exercise moderately, a mix of running and gym cardio. I want to start some weight and toning training too but not sure what. I did British military fitness last year and although quite heavy was the best I've looked. So toned! A hip injury put pay to that though.
Anyway, enough rambling. You all sound very knowledgeable and supportive and I'd love to come on board please!
First day was today...feel fine so far and have come in at 540 calories with a light youtube work out. Start as I mean to go on!

PissPotPourri · 19/02/2019 21:27

Ps Bigchoc, 're. snacking and grazing... someone at work today said "Little Pickers wear Bigger Knickers". Made me laugh but not untrue given what you've just posted