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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
TalkinPeece · 17/02/2019 13:59

Bigchoc
Knees are old injuries leading to rather a lack of cartilage and thus arthritis
But its why I HAVE to keep my weight under control as the heavier I am, the more they hurt.

O4FS · 17/02/2019 14:35

Hello all, feeling great today. Looking ahead to my next phase I wondered if I could ask for some help please?

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good Mediterranean cook book please?

Also, any suggestions on how to increase fibre?

Lastly, rye bread. Is that beneficial at all?

Thank you Oh Wise Fasters! 😊

BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2019 15:44

O4FS Answers:

  1. Excellent low carb Mediteranean recipes on Mosely's BSD & Fast800 sites:

thebloodsugardiet.com/recipes-by-diet-type/low-carb/

thefast800.com/articles-and-recipes/

  1. to increase fibre on low carb diets: Mosely advises a portion of beans / peas / lentils most days for BSD / Fast800 High fibre and also proven to help stabilise blood sigar

Have 1 tbsp chia seed daily and / or 1 tbsp flaxmeal - no more than this, or it can clog you up
Drink LOTS of water with any meal that has this
Some recipes for chia and flaxmeal included in the above link

Also see the specific suggestions for fibre on the Fast800 site:

thefast800.com/ways-to-boost-your-fibre/

  1. If you really want bread on Fast800 / BSD, then rye bread is the best ready made choice - but no more than 1 slice per day of either this or of any of the breads in the above recipes

For rye, get the 100% rye, not a mixture with wheat

On normal 5:2, rye bread is also a good choice instead of ordinary bread, probably better even than wholegrain bread.

OP posts:
Boxlikeahare · 17/02/2019 15:48

Hi everyone, I am fasting today. I have had a large Americano with a bit of milk at my local NT place after another walk today. Haven’t thought about dinner yet as I need to look in the freezer but I am thinking about smoked salmon and scrambled eggs.

I am in a lot of pain today - I get severe pain for about a week at ovulation time and then same again TOTM. Paracetamol doesn’t really touch it but that’s all I can take unless I want to take tramadol type drugs which I don’t as have to function. Seeing my consultant again on Friday - I just want it all removed which was the plan until I saw a different doctor last time.

Anyway the lining of this particular cloud is that the pain makes fasting a piece of cake.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2019 15:50

This is a typical day's menu on Fast800 or BSD, so around 800 cals of low carb Med:

B: full fat Greek yogurt with seeds and berries

L: Medi platter: cucumber, cherry Tom's, a pepper, 2 tablespoons of hummus, handful of olives and a matchbox size of crumbled feta

S: griddled chicken breast on white bean mash served with greens

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2019 15:53

Oh, poor Box 💐 that sounds terrible
I hope the specialist can help asap

Your menu sounds fine, but do add some veg, e.g. spinach and peppers or tomato

OP posts:
Boxlikeahare · 17/02/2019 15:57

Thanks BCF, I will do that. I have got some baby spinach, baby plum tomatoes and some lovely mushrooms in the fridge so i will definitely add veg.

O4FS · 17/02/2019 16:22

@BigChocFrenzy thank you SO much. Extremely helpful. I very much appreciated you taking the time. Flowers

Boxlikeahare · 17/02/2019 18:03

Yes BCF thank you, you are very generous with your time.

I am done here, two scrambled eggs, half a packet (50g) of smoked salmon, two grilled field mushrooms and some spinach.

I am not a snacker so I don't need to worry about anything else today.

I have got a lovely swanky new favourite tea so will have a couple of cups of that between now and bedtime.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2019 19:40

Well done, Box
Your tea sounds a lovely FD treat

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 17/02/2019 21:14

Kitchen is closing on 664. How are you getting on @bigchoc?

Boxlikeahare · 17/02/2019 21:29

So sorry BCF Blush - I missed you were fasting today - good day Harriet!

harriethoyle · 17/02/2019 22:34

Back at you @boxlike!

Boxlikeahare · 18/02/2019 06:45

Morning fasters, another FD planned here - it is my long day at work with evening meetings and I usually find it easy on those days (plus the added stomach ache bonus dulling my appetite).

Good luck to everyone fasting 🌸.

EssentialHummus · 18/02/2019 07:11

Good morning everyone, just catching up on the weekend’s posts. Hope any weekend fasters did well.

I’m fasting today. Plan is just coffee and water during the day, then a ready meal with added veg later (what I do every FD!). I didn’t count calories over the weekend but made sure that most of our meals were heavy on the veg, with a big pot of lentil dhal.

Anyone else fasting today? scruffy?

Cheeeeislifenow · 18/02/2019 07:59

Morning , it's my Monday morning weigh in this morning.. 2 lb down so that's 1 stone and 3 lb down altogether! I ended up having a mini FD on Sunday as I had lots of unhealthy things on Saturday! Such is life. No fasting for me today but I will be busy so won't have time to think of food!!
Good luck to everyone fasting!!

BigChocFrenzy · 18/02/2019 08:41

Congratulations on your SV, cheee
The mini evened out your weekend

Well done, Harriet
My training and FD went as planned - I usually do 800 FDs on maintenance, sometimes even miniFDs

Good luck, Hummus and all the other Monday fasters

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 18/02/2019 09:24

Well done cheee!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/02/2019 09:38

O4FS well done on your SV
box that is rubbish, hope you get it sorted soon?

Well done on the weekend fasts harriet bcf and box
Excellent SV cheee

Sat cheese and wine and catch up with friend was a bit of a nightmare calorie wise as we drank far too much and didn't roll in until gone 1am Shock needless to say i was feeling the need for dirty food yesterday so that's my weekend written off!!!

NFD today, I couldn't face a fd, planning a nourishing one and then FD tomorrow and friday I think...

Good luck monday fasters....

OohMrDarcy · 18/02/2019 09:50

Morning all

Another year older here, so planning a mildly indulgent NFD today, and mini tomorrow (lunch with some friends) and back to normal FD Thursday or Friday I think.

Aim is to sts this week (or if I'm lucky a slight loss) to prevent a gain and back to normal fully next week 🤞

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/02/2019 10:29

Happy birthday mrd enjoy your day Flowers Cake

BigChocFrenzy · 18/02/2019 11:46

Happy birthday, MrD 💐
Enjoy your day

OP posts:
Laniakea · 18/02/2019 11:49

Happy birthday MrD!

FD for me too.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/02/2019 13:07

Good luck, Lania

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 18/02/2019 17:37

@boxlike @essential @lania I'm with you on the fast train! It's a b2b with yesterday.

Currently at 340 and planning a ready meal for tea in half an hour, so will be very slightly over 650 average for each day but I'm still counting it as a win. 20 cals isn't going to destabilise me.

Am going to do a mini tomorrow I think then a FD on Wednesday before my very indulgent long weekend starts on Thursday!@ Grin Wine Wine Wine Cake