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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
OohMrDarcy · 15/02/2019 11:52

no chance on the soft ones here either BigChoc.... stupid eye syndrome I call it - long sighted, squint, astigmantism, lazy eye..... rubbish!

TalkinPeece · 15/02/2019 13:18

Checking in to admit that the scales say I've lost no weight this week and my knee hurts
but its warm enough to get out in the veg garden this weekend so all will be good.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/02/2019 14:55

Don't worry, TiP

You know weight fluctuates naturally a bit from week to week, which might even have hidden a 1lb loss
or you just had a maintenance week when your body consolidated the previous loss,
or even a bot more indulgent week than before, which doesn't matter.

Just stay focused, keep up healthy 5:2 habits, sensible eating & drinking; progress will resume

OP posts:
Cheeeeislifenow · 15/02/2019 15:09

Hello haven't checked in all week!
Had FD Tuesday and Thursday.
Busy week and I am pretty tired .. but feeling very confident re weight possible this week I really hope I am on target by April 9th! Which is d day for my holiday in oz. That's just my first big goal. Going to treat myself to something new next week as well!
In the future clothes shopping won't be as depressing as it was before .happy Friday people!

OohMrDarcy · 15/02/2019 17:45

Kitchen closed on 527... very happy with that, met a friend in Costa and had a tea so taking the NSV there for no high cal latte, or cake!

🤞 for tomorrow's weigh in

BigChocFrenzy · 15/02/2019 18:00

Well done on your FD, MrD
and a great NSV of resisting Costa extras

Good luck for d day, cheee
Have an early night, so you can start the weekend feeling rested.

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Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/02/2019 19:44

Well done mrd and good luck for your weigh in cheee

Fd done on about 560.... I could murder a Wine but telling myself I can have it tomorrow! Early night for me I think

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/02/2019 19:59

Oh fingers crossed for you too mrd

tip enjoy the weekend in your garden Smile

Laniakea · 15/02/2019 19:59

well done fasters :)

I've had two NFDs here

2x coffee - 100
rye bread with hummus & veg - 450
veggie burger (today), frittata (yesterday) with extra salad/veg - 650

I'm planning a FD tomorrow.

O4FS · 15/02/2019 20:49

I love hearing what people eat during the day. On here, but also generally. Is that odd? It’s really helpful to know what you are all doing.

Does anyone use keytone testing strips? I know MM talks about them. If so, what brand - the ones on Amazon seem a bit hit and miss. Or is it a step too far?

OohMrDarcy · 15/02/2019 21:32

Well done 43, resist that wine! You weighing in tomorrow?

Sound like good NFDs Man is

O4FS I find it useful too, especially if I've got in a rut with what I'm eating. I don't use the ketone strips.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/02/2019 21:45

I don't think so mrd as have had 2 difficult birthday weekends plus a bit too much eating to take the pain away this week....

O4FS I do too.... today I've had a small skinny vanilla latte, subway chicken salad followed by sugar free jelly for lunch, tin of big soup with some extra sliced chicken for dinner.... and a bit of milk for tea.

Off to bed now after making the mistake of watching masterchef, belly is well and truly rumbling now!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/02/2019 00:07

Well done, Friday fasters !

O4FS imo, ketone strips are not worth bothering with, even if you are low carbing on Fast 800
It's just a gimmick, to make you buy the strips !

Some people don't produce many ketones, even on strict low carb
It doesn't mean they aren't burning fat just as much as anyone else

On ordinary 5:2, most folk won't be producing detectable ketones on FD
iirc, it takes a few days low carbing for them to show, if they ever do.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 16/02/2019 06:46

Morning all,

Another good weigh in - 2lb down, total loss 1st 5.4lb ... so close to hitting the 20lb mark for my next non food reward!

Hope anyone else weighing in is happy too!

Boxlikeahare · 16/02/2019 08:26

Well done MrD, amazing! Not sure what I am doing today, FD/NFD 🤷🏻‍♀️ nectarine and Greek yoghurt for breakfast and then a long hilly walk. I will see how the rest pans out!

All these SVs are encouraging me to buy some scales!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/02/2019 08:48

Fantastic progress mrd
I decided against weighing today, in addition to a rubbish week of nfds I am also 'ahem' clogged up from all the painkillers Blush feeling very sore and bloated! Good luck to others weighing / fasting today and enjoy your walk box

BigChocFrenzy · 16/02/2019 11:32

Congratulations on your SV, MrD
So near to your next milestone and your next non-food reward

Poor you, 43 💐
Definitely avoid scales until you feel normal again

The hill walk is a great idea, Box if you are also enjoying a lovely sunny day
I'm having brunch in my fav cafe overlooking the sunny Rhine (it does look miserable here when it rains !) and I'll have a walk afterwards
Then this afternoon is pump class

OP posts:
O4FS · 16/02/2019 11:44

5.8 pounds off since Monday, not been massively hungry. Went out last night and one Diet Coke only.

About to have a 284 calorie ‘fry’ up: mushrooms, tomatoes, heck chicken sausages, bacon medallions and an egg. The advice on here about macros has been really helpful and trying to keep carbs to about 25%.

TalkinPeece · 16/02/2019 14:17

Grey day today so DH and I did our normal car errands on foot - took a couple of hours rather than a couple of minutes, but feel better for the fresh air
back on the ibuprofen for my knees though Sad

Boxlikeahare · 16/02/2019 15:26

It was lovely BCF, I had planned to drive 20 miles to the hills but chose not to as I wanted some time for a bit of gardening in the sunshine.

I live about a mile from a world heritage site so walked there over the fields and then round the inside and outside - 8 miles. So not hugely hilly in the end but far from flat.

I took a 2" square of the dark chocolate and ginger cake I made yesterday which was less than half the size of DD's which makes this a NFD but it will be a mini.

This WOE definitely makes me think about food and what I am eating even on a NFD, instead of reaching for a sandwich I think about what I could eat without eating bread.

O4FS that is amazing. Poor you TIP.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/02/2019 17:22

Fab SV, O4FS
Things usually slow down after the first week on the BSD, which is basically what the first weeks of Fast800 are.
So don't worry if that happens; it's normal

Sounds a lovely relaxing day, Box
Also, you are developing new healthy eating & exercise habits

Oh, your poor knees, TiP 💐
Do you have arthritis there, or cartilage problem, or an old injury?

OP posts:
Laniakea · 16/02/2019 20:24

I have really struggled today. Managed it somehow

2x coffee - 100
miso soup - 30
rye bread, pate, celery & radishes - 350

going to bed now!

Great SVs MrD & O4FS Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2019 08:10

Well done on persisting with your FD, lania
Next FD, I recommend you boost protein, to help you feel fuller - eggs or fish are especially good for this.

I'm fasting today - anyone else ?
Spin class this morning and a relaxing Rhine walk this afternoon

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 17/02/2019 09:34

Well done @mrd and @O4FS

I'm fasting @bigchoc after a few days of decadence away with my OH. Think am going to do b2b today and tomorrow then maybe weds before I go on holiday on Thurs.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2019 13:56

Then good luck to us both, harriet

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