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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
TalkinPeece · 14/02/2019 13:55

Checking in after deciding not to fast today,
but DH and I had a ham branston and stilton wrap for lunch - between us Grin
supper will be nothing fancy as he has a crack of dawn start.

MozzchopsThirty · 14/02/2019 15:49

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy for all the advice
Good to know a bit more about what I'm doing

From next Monday it will only be 5 weeks until my holiday so I'll need to up my game

BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2019 16:11

Yum, TiP but sharing it with your DH shows true love 😂

OP posts:
scruffybarnsley · 14/02/2019 17:30

Thanks everyone, today has been a good day. Even been out for a short jog, it's absolutely beautiful here today. Snowdrops are coming out, spring is nearly here!

Time to shed the winter layers (of fat!) Grin

Hummus - a 2500 TDEE is my idea of heaven but I wouldn't be dedicated enough to put all that exercise in to earn it!

EssentialHummus · 14/02/2019 17:51

Oh gosh, it’s definitely someone else with the 2500 TDEE! I’d have remembered that Grin.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2019 18:43

Hummus I put your 5'8" and 70 kg into Mosely's TDEE Calc with nominal age 35 (wild guess at your age) and activity level "very active"
That gives about 2500
(now you're going to tell me you meant to type 4'8" ! 😂 )

OP posts:
TalkinPeece · 14/02/2019 19:06

So tonight for our romantic valentines meal we are having

drumroll please

sausage sandwiches on home made bread with caramelised onions and pink wine

because after 35 years together, romance is eating exactly what we are both in the mood for Grin

O4FS · 14/02/2019 19:11

Hello, can I jump in please? Is this the place for the fast 800? Is anyone on here doing it?

Stepha85 · 14/02/2019 21:17

O4FS I'm doing it! Are you just about to start? I think there might be a couple of others too - everyone here is very friendly, regardless of which plan you are following!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2019 21:26

You are welcome to join, O4FS 🙂
We do 5:2, but there is at least one poster who is doing Fast800 for a few weeks first

Fast800 is daily 800 calories and low carb Mediteranean
moving later, when you wish, to just 2 days on 800 cals, but keeping daily low carb Med

low carb Mediteranean:

  • No starchy carbs - bread, potato, pasta, rice, pies etc - or added sugar - cake, bíscuits, choc, sweets, pastries etc

  • Mosely encourages plenty of fish, not just meat

  • recommends that most days you have peas / beans / lentils to help stabilise blood sugar

  • also full fat Greek yoghurt

  • nuts & seeds, olive oil, cheese (in sensible amounts)

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 14/02/2019 21:27

now you're going to tell me you meant to type 4'8"

GrinGrin

Well I am 33 (and 5'8!) but my activity level is sedentary, so I expect TDEE will be lower (current TDEE is 1770). It's a longer-term goal of mine to get moving more, but I don't want to bank on it in my calculations.

sausage sandwiches on home made bread with caramelised onions and pink wine

Ooh, yum! We're not celebrating at all - DH is off to bed and I'm sending off a few work emails. We do the Russian "men's day", "women's day" etc instead, which feels like a nice trade-off.

O4FS · 14/02/2019 21:33

Ahh thank you! I’m doing 800 for two weeks and then moving onto 5:2. Day 4 and 4 pounds off. I’ve done 5;2 before. I have two stone to shift ideally.

Have lurked on this thread, it’s really helpful.

Thanks so much Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2019 22:09

Congratulations on your SV, O4FS
Good start

Oops sorry, Hummus I confused your activty level with HIC Blush
(both names begin with "H" and it's been a long day !)

Your TDEE at 70 kg, BMI 23.5, would be about 1740

I had long meetings at work, but Thursday is my training restday, as Wednesday program is always my toughest

Yesterday:

  • My usual weekday 30 km cycling outdoors, split into 4 journeys
  • Morning strength & flexibility class
  • 40 minute jog along the Rhine because I couldn't stay indoors on a glorious sunny day
  • Evening class of advanced lifting, which included 5 minutes of holding a weight in the air while getting up from a step, the thigh-killer which knackered me
OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 14/02/2019 22:26

Can I join? I’ve been lurking for a while and thought I’d join in for the second part of this weight loss which is likely to be trickier.

My starting weight was 75.5 which is heavier than I’ve ever been, except after having babies. I’m moderately active, running 5km 4-5 times a week but my inactive days are very inactive thanks to work and driving around with the kids. I’ve lost my pregnancy weight quite easily all 4 times but the excess has crept on slowly over some years after too much snacking. Overall I eat pretty well and can take or leave most sweet things.

I’ve been doing 5:2 for 9 weeks and have lost 6kg, current weight 69.5. I’d like to get back to 64. Apart from the first few weeks when it was hideous I am finding the faster easier and easier. I doubt I’ve ever made 500cal, I probably eat that much but I can’t drink black coffee so there’s easily another 100-150cal on milk in drinks each fast day.

Still, it’s working! I’m 45 and I suspect the gain was a sort of middle age creep. My height is 170cm.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2019 23:04

Welcome, surprised 🙂
and well done on your SV;
that's 8% down from your start weight, so you should feel and see the difference

Sounds like you have fully adapted now to fasting

Next step: Mosely - & other fasting experts - recommend NO snacking ever, FDs or NFDs, even weekends or holidays
Make it a permanent healthy new habit - it really helps longterm weight control

Even "healthy" snacks keep insulin raised throughout the day and hinder the continuation of fat-burning on NFDs

  • and most snacks aren't nutritious, but often junky calorie bombs

Also, studies have shown that people rarely lower the next meal size by as much as the snack calories, so snacks increase the daily calorie total

OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 14/02/2019 23:18

Thanks bigchoc

I do need to address the snacking, it’s how I put on the weight in the first place. It’s the first time in my life (except for postpartum) that I’ve been overweight and it’s a wake up call, I think. 5:2 works because I prefer not to think about food at other times.

I can see the difference and my clothes definitely are looser but everyone commented after the first 3kg loss but not with the rest. DH has said nothing, but he said nothing as it went on as well, bless him.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/02/2019 08:29

morning everyone, and welcome O4FS and nolonger
tip i think your valentines meal sounds perfect Smile

hummus if only it was a tdee of 2500 Grin I'm slightly shorter than you at 5 ft 7 and I'd love to get to 10 st 10 if I can but it seems such a long way off!!!

I've really struggled this week with the back pain and comfort eating, managed to get a doctors appointment yesterday and I've strained my sacroiliac joint which can take up to another 4 weeks to heal Sad I've got anti-inflammatories and painkillers and exercises to do at home so fingers crossed. Trying a FD today, I have to take tablets with a meal, but on a FD i don't eat until noon, so will just see how i cope with the pain until then.

Anyone else fasting with me today??

OohMrDarcy · 15/02/2019 09:18

Morning all

Checking in for Friday FD (I'm really enjoying doing it on a Friday so might become a regular day for me... we shall see!)

Welcome O4FS and Surprised!

43 - havey you been given naproxen? For back injuries I've always found ibuprofen just doesn't cut it and naproxen is FAR more effective (same group - anti-inflamatories).... you might need to rejig your FD meals and have something light in the morning - a boiled egg or some raw carrot. It doesn't matter what for the meds, its just to protect your stomach lining.

Yesterday was a good day for me, new company car arrived finally (ordered in August) so the kids and I had fun testing out all the cool new buttons... we then decided to take it to our local pub restaurant for dinner forgetting it was valentines, all the tables were full haha!

Like someone upthread I definitely felt spring in the air yeseterday, so I'm all bubbly and excited - I adore this time of year and often notice it around my birthday (monday).

I've decided to keep going with the self care, focus on me stuff and I've been assessed for contacts, I've worn glasses since I was 3 - with a few years of contacts before babies came on the scene. I do not like glasses, and it annoys me so I'm keen to give them another go now the kids are older.

Just plotting my FD meals now... soup for lunch and chicken / veg for dinner I think!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/02/2019 09:51

Hi mrd the new car sounds great..... and good luck with the contact lenses. It definitely feels like spring is in the air, beautifully sunny day here today shame i'm stuck in the office until 3pm

No, not naproxen, the GP prescribed me meloxicam and co-dydramol? I'll see how I get on, I have to go back in 10 days if no improvement.

scruffybarnsley · 15/02/2019 09:56

Just a quick check in to report a SV - I weighed this am and have got to the weight I was aiming for before I go on holiday tomorrow. This is despite bouncing around 2-3lbs higher all week - I knew that wasn't a 'true' reading as I knew I'd done everything right but my body really does fluctuate. Sets me up nicely for my holiday to Norway...though will need plenty of layers there!

Have a plan for my first FD back to be the Tues after half term and can't deviate from that as I know I might find it tricky to get back on it after a hol. Today's SV has really helped for motivation though.

Loving the spring weather too mrdarcy, changes my whole mood☀️ Happy birthday for Mon.

TiP - your valentines meal sounds amazing!

Welcome to those joining. Good luck Friday fasters!

OohMrDarcy · 15/02/2019 10:33

Congrats on your SV scruffy - perfect timing, have an ace holiday!

TiP forgot to mention earlier - I adore a sausage sandwich so sounds perfect to me!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/02/2019 11:27

fantastic SV scruffy enjoy your holiday Smile

Laniakea · 15/02/2019 11:28

excellent SV scruffy!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/02/2019 11:35

Congratulations on your SV, Scruffy and enjoy your holiday

Now note down the date of your 1st FD after the holidays:
that helps avoid "holiday creep" - delaying fasting for weeks / months afterwards and hence regaining.

That's good you've managed to see the GP, 43
Those tablets & exercises will hopefully sort out your poor back soon.

That's brilliant you're focusing so well on self-care, MrD
It's another healthy habit NSV

I've worn contact lenses for over 40 years
It's just the first 3 weeks I found tricky - I have to wear "hard" contact lenses, which are more difficult to get used to
Soft lenses, if your optician recommends those, are much easier
I put them in initially for 2 hours daily, building up gradually to full time
I found my vision, especially peripheral vision, was much better with lenses

Enjoy your cool new car.

Good luck, 43, MrD and any other Friday fasters
I'm joining you.

So far:
B: black coffee
Fasted strength & fitness class
Jog along the Rhine
Next:
L: Veg soup & raw kale non-grain crackers
S. Grilled salmon strips & mixed salad

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 15/02/2019 11:39

Congrats scruffy! Have a wonderful holiday.