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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
MozzchopsThirty · 13/02/2019 08:35

Thanks for the advice re mini fast I'll give it a whirl!

FD for me today, veggie curry no rice for lunch and chicken fajita for dinner with one wrap no cheese and no sour cream

EssentialHummus · 13/02/2019 09:07

Morning all, checking in after a b2b.

borris that's incredibly frustrating, I'm sorry.

43 that sounds incredibly painful, I hope the GP has an answer for you.

talk I love the sound of that tofu kedgeree!

Weight this morning was 75.9kg (11.9 stone) which I'm very happy with for a TOTM fast - was worried I'd gain. Supper yesterday was a ready meal (again) with added carrots, cauliflower and broccoli. Not sure about food for the rest of today, but I've had a lovely and filling scrambled egg on toast for breakfast.

Last few weigh-ins:
76.3
76.1 b2b
76.1 (TOTM)
76.4 (TOTM)
75.9 b2b

Good luck to any Wednesday fasters.

DontFundHate · 13/02/2019 09:16

Thank you big

Weighed in this morn and lost 2lb! How often do you all weigh in?

Laniakea · 13/02/2019 09:56

I avoid weighing Dont - I was weighed at the dr in December & then again a week ago. I know from experience that a gain, STS or (too) small loss dumps me in a spiral of self loathing & misery! I'd love to be less affected by it - maybe one day! I'm using my jeans as a guide atm - when I can comfortably get them done up I'll probably get weighed.

I think the advice is to weigh weekly?

Gah to the gain Borris, it will probably come of quickly but I agree with you that it's bloody depressing seeing how easy it is to gain/hard to lose.

EssentialHummus · 13/02/2019 10:04

I weigh in the morning after FD (after the loo). I’m too nosey to weigh less frequently!

TalkinPeece · 13/02/2019 11:53

I weigh myself once or twice a week on the Boditrax machine at the gym - I do not own a set of scales
but the waistband of my favourite work skirt is a much more accurate guide
as is the amount of pain in my knee joints

so I know I have to stay on track to be comfortable in my skin.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2019 12:34

Congrats on your totm SV, Hummus
Those figures show excellent progress

Congrats on your SV too, Don'tfund
Good start

With weighing, the frequency is personal preference
Main advice is:

  • weigh under consistent conditions
  • ignore daily blips if you weigh daily
  • if scales stress you too much, weigh every 4-6 weeks

Most folk weigh weekly:
naked, first thing in the morning after FD2, after loo, but before eating or drinking anything
Look at the trend every 2-3 weeks and it should be downwards even if you are a slow loser

Borris After your indulgent weekend, that gain will be mostly undigested food and water
A good dump & some wees, a good FD, especially the next day, should get rid of all or most of that

OP posts:
MozzchopsThirty · 13/02/2019 18:37

Oh dear I think I'm gonna have to ditch today
The eating has been fine but now I'm going out for a drink tonight

Do I continue with my mini fast on Friday?
Or just write the week off

I could do tomorrow but I really begrudge giving up my breakfast Grin

Boxlikeahare · 13/02/2019 19:00

NFD here today but I am still reading Smile.

I haven't bothered with weighing at all, I do have some scales but they are ancient and didn't work the last time I changed the battery.

I wear tailored clothes for work. One of my dresses was snug on my hips before Christmas and now it is definitely not snug, has at least an inch spare on both sides on my hips. I couldn't fasten the bottom button on my navy blue fitted overcoat in November, this morning I was able to fasten it.

I am not going to bother weighing because I can feel myself losing inches and that's good enough for me right now. I know that my ideal weight renders me two dress sizes below what I am right now so I reckon I will just keep going until I can wear my old clothes.

TalkinPeece · 13/02/2019 19:45

Mozz
Go for the mini fast
as every meal that you pull things back together
rather than "giving up on a week"
is another meal heading in the right direction

BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2019 20:06

mozz You can still have breakfast on a miniFD if you plan your meals for the day in advance

A miniFD is up to 1000 calories, with same food & drink rules as an FD
i.e. No alcohol, no junk

So, on Friday, you could have 3 meals, or just breakfast & supper, so long as they total up to 1000 calories
and contain no junk or booze

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2019 20:08

Well done on your clothes NSVs, Box
Those lost inches are lost bodyfat

No need to weigh if you'd rather not,
just monitor how the fit of the same couple of outfits changes

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 13/02/2019 20:10

Evening all

Survived trip to ice cream place... DD had waffle and ice cream, DS had ice cream.... I had a pot of tea Halo

Laniakea · 13/02/2019 20:32

Well done MrDarcy!

NFD - should was supposed to be cooking but he got stuck at work - he can do tomorrow!

Coffees & milk, muffin with poached eggs & mushrooms, celery soup with some cheese & bread is a bit over 1300.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/02/2019 20:39

Oh no borris that's pants Sad any other reason for it? If it wasn't too bad a weekend then 1kg is a lot?

Well done on your sv hummus we are the same weight, how tall are you? How much are you looking to lose?

Fab sv dont

mozz enjoy tonight but still have mini on Fri I reckon.

Excellent nsv box

Well done mrd hope dd had a lovely bday Smile

Nfd today but I'm struggling and I've snacked sorry bcf I'm blaming the back pain.... hopefully will get gp appointment tomorrow

Iamblossom · 13/02/2019 21:07

Hmm after a good FD on Monday I am already feeling in holiday mode as we go skiing on Sunday. Struggling to not eat the world!:

0% Greek yog, berries and seeds, slice of toast and marmite, banana

Really big salad in work canteen, chicken breast, two boiled eggs, sweet potato, butter beans, red cabbage, lentils, yum yum yum

Water crackers, some nuts, and two glasses of white

Two poached eggs, slice of toast and some mushrooms

BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2019 21:13

That's really impressive control, Mrd Halo

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 13/02/2019 21:34

Thanks all

43 - hope you can get some help with your back soon. I've got a long history with back issues (much of the trigger for my initial gains forever ago) so can literally feel your pain.

blossom - keep going, you can do it and then you've earned your relax when skiiing

well done to any Wednesday fasters

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/02/2019 23:27

Mmmm iam that sounds like a good work kitchen /canteen.

mrd thanks for the advice, hopefully it'll be sorted soon

scruffybarnsley · 14/02/2019 08:17

Checking in for my second fast of the week after ending my B2B early on Tuesday! Feel in a much better place to do it today.

Need to drink more water today as I've been low this week due to forgetting my water bottle every bloody day!!!!

Still not drinking alcohol in the week. Surely just on its own that should be having a massive impact?! (Still waiting for that....!)

BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2019 11:57

Good luck, scruff
and do keep drinking water throughout the day. Refill your bottle.

Cutting back on alcohol helps your liver and your waistline - since excess alcohol and sugar calories are preferentially stored there - so you are doing good for your bod.

OP posts:
MozzchopsThirty · 14/02/2019 12:19

I will mini fast Friday but I will definitely be drinking
Life's too short to go out and not drink Grin

I'll have to just make do with eating well tho week with only one proper FD
Back to it next week

EssentialHummus · 14/02/2019 12:27

forty I'm 178cm/around 5'8. I never set a goal weight to begin with, but I'd love to be back down below 70kg. What are you aiming for?

Good luck scruffy!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2019 12:28

Technical point, Mozz That's not a miniFD, but is a sub-TDEE day
which is still a useful boost before the weekend, well worth doing

The only difference between an FD and a miniFD is that a mini has 800-1000 calories:

The food & drink rules are the same, i.e. no alcohol or junky food, especially sugary junk
and so is the duration, i.e. a mini is also a whole day and 2 sleeps.

Alcohol stops the fasting process, because your body stops fat-burning until your liver has finished processing the toxic by-products

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2019 12:32

Hummus 70 kg would give you a BMI of 23.0 which would be excellent, as all thattraining must have given you a lot of muscle

Also, your calculated TDEE - if you maintain this exercise level - would be around 2500, which is high enough to make maintenance much easier than for most folk

OP posts:
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