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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
scruffybarnsley · 12/02/2019 12:20

I'm afraid the good luck was premature. Been so hungry today that I've abandoned B2B so will have a mini today and then a proper FD on Thursday. It got to the point where I was about to go really off the rails and hit the crisps or something, so I just consciously decided to have lunch at 11.30am and will have something small for dinner.

I think my appetite is so linked to hormones - most of the time I'm completely fine but every now and then I'm ravenous. Yesterday was v hard too but I was mostly out of the house so just about made it. Today was too much!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/02/2019 13:00

Hello everyone, such a fast moving thread... well done to all the successful monday fasters Grin

Excellent SV steph and iam and fantastic whoosh harriet Smile
Fab jean NSV lania

Eek borris easily done I suppose but i'd have to throw that jar away or i'd end up eating the rest!!!

Oh dear snail shame for your bag but hope ddog is better now?

scruffy don't worry about it, just move on and have a good nfd and plan your next fd

FD today and all good so far although my stomach is playing up, has done since I moved some furniture over a week and a half ago, assumed I've pulled a muscle but feels gurgl-y and crampy and bloated and like period is on its way (but its not as I've just had it!)

BigChocFrenzy · 12/02/2019 13:29

Good decision, scruffy It's always best to change your plans if you feel too hungry / unwell / have an unexpected social engagement
and definitely when there is otherwise danger of diving into junk.

Changing to a mini or even a healthy sub-TDEE is fine

btw, a minority get on really well with b2b,
but most fasters find them too tough and stick to single FDs, or compromise with consecutive FD, then mini

Don't move any more furniture, 43 !
I hope your tum recovers soon

OP posts:
snailhunter · 12/02/2019 13:33

Just a word on those who have been fasting since Christmas and feeling like a break - that's me! I am pleased that I'm away next week as I find that if I have a break from fasting every six weeks or so, I feel quite happy and ready to go back to it. It also helps me remember the importance of day to day healthy habits as well as fasting.

My bag is fine, thank you, 43! I spent quite a lot of time scrubbing it with spray disinfectant and hot water and am about as sure as I can be that there is no dog vomit residue. Dog, of course, is fine and happy and bouncing around as per usual. I have decided that I will allow him to stay this once...

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/02/2019 14:43

DH was poorly bcf so I had to move it on my own or my visiting dad wold have had nowhere to sleep [grrrrr] i've never had a back issue before and I must say its knocked me for 6, i didn't expect so much pain to radiate around to the front....

Ha ha snail good to hear ddog is doing well Grin and that you have decided to keep him / her - I feel we need to see a photo of the offender Smile Enjoy your week away

MazDazzle · 12/02/2019 14:53

It sounds like downgrading to a mini was the right thing to do scruffy.

Good luck with the FD 43. I’m fasting today too after a very indulgent long weekend Blush.

Sailing through so far on coffee and water. Working tonight. Don’t finish until midnight, so I’ll probably have my fast day meal before my shift starts.

Totm is looming, so I shall try to resist the temptation to murder my DH and fall face first into a cake!

DontFundHate · 12/02/2019 15:11

Hello! Just coming on to say thanks for the advice a few days ago, I realise I wasn't doing anything right really! I have now read the new fast 800 book and on my second b2b fast day of 800 calories. Thanks everyone :)

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/02/2019 16:53

Oh dear maz good luck with that Grin

DontFundHate · 12/02/2019 18:25

Can anyone tell me please, when do fast days start and end? E.g. Sunday night I did 16:8 from 6pm til actually 11.30am on Monday. Monday was a fast day so I had 800 calories. Then Monday night I did 16:8 (roughly) again from 5.30 til 10am. Today is another fast day. So tonight, can I continue drinking calories (up to 800) until say 8pm, then have breakfast tomorrow at 8am so that I've done a 12:12?? Does that make sense?!

OohMrDarcy · 12/02/2019 18:39

Evening all,

Kitchen closed on a reasonably successful FD. May have accidentally eaten a fudge bar (110 cals ) but not the end of the world, still under 600.

Now to survive a reasonably healthy NFD tomorrow for daughters birthday!

TalkinPeece · 12/02/2019 19:21

Checking in now that the kitchen has closed after an utterly experimental dinner that turned out absolutely yummy
tofu kedgeree ....
Cook rice, boiling the eggs in the same pan.
Fry up onion, garlic and a LOAD of curry powder in butter. Stir in cubes of tofu and let cogitate gently.
When rice is cooked, stir gently into the spicy tofu and let cogitate while you shell and quarter the eggs.
Serve with aubergine pickle.

Not sure what the calories were, but the pile was not big on the plate and both DH and I are stuffed.

MozzchopsThirty · 12/02/2019 19:52

Is there any benefit to doing a mini fast?

I'm doing Monday & Wednesday this week as FD
But I'm going out Friday nite for food and drinks so would it be worth me eating a brunch at 11.30 ish then go out and eat about 5pm

TalkinPeece · 12/02/2019 20:10

Mozzchops
Is there any benefit to doing a mini fast?
Yes, because its part of mindful eating - which will set you up good habits for a lifetime.

Iamblossom · 12/02/2019 20:13

So wine happened this evening. Yum. Quite enjoying mfp telling me I am still within tdee limits though on my new setting.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/02/2019 20:37

Well done everyone... mrd hope you enjoy some Cake with your family tomorrow.

tip that sounds lovely, what is aubergine pickle, it sounds delicious.

Fd done here at 499, bed soon as grumpy and tired...

mozz that's what I try to do if I'm off out

Ooh enjoy the wine iam

Laniakea · 12/02/2019 20:41

kedgeree ... god I love kedgeree, I can eat it by the kilo.

Ended up doing another fast day - I wasn't hungry at all & dh & the kids were out & I couldn't be arsed to cook just for me.

coffee + milk x2 - 100
rye bread (125), pate (120), olives, pickles, a couple of nuts (!)
= 500 exactly

DH's turn to cook tomorrow - it will be something pasta based I expect - so definitely not a a low calorie day. I've fasted Saturday, Monday, Tuesday so no more until the weekend. Finding the balance on NFDs is a challenge for me - I'm just as easily wildly over as way under calories.

We're going out on March 2nd for my birthday so I'm aiming to be super strict until then. I would love to get my jeans done up Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 12/02/2019 20:44

Aargh, snail Does your bag now pass the sniff test ?
btw, you know that old saying "a dog returns to its old vomit" - watch him !

43 If your furniture moving has really hurt your tum, maybe worth seeing the GP to check it's just a pulled muscle ?
He might suggest simple TLC treatment that would help the healing.
Otherwise, a bad pull or muscle tear can last 6 weeks

Good luck on your Fast800, Dontfund
You've decided on a form of fasting that suits your individual needs & preferences

On Fast800, count the days as in normal life,
i.e. midnight to midnight you have 800 cals, low carb

  • but have them in a eating window that is 12 hours or less, e.g. 7am - 7pm or 8am - 8 pm

On 5:2 and 4:3,
after NFD supper, you have sleep #1, then 500 cals during the day, then sleep #2, then NFD

Good luck, Maz
Do resist mariticide and cake !

A great filling recipe, TiP

Mozz A miniFD is sub-1000 cals in a day
What you are doing is sensible before an evening meal out: reducing calories earlier in the day to compensate
If you have say some egg / tuna / prawns / .... with a mixed salad at 11.30, that would be light, but keep you going

OP posts:
TalkinPeece · 12/02/2019 20:44

fortythree
www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/waitrose-pickle-aubergine
Its like mango chutney but much less sweet and a lot stronger in flavour
I love it

BigChocFrenzy · 12/02/2019 20:47

Well done on your FD, MrD

Enjoy your recalculated TDEE, Blossom
but remember NHS alcohol limits - your waist will thank you

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/02/2019 20:48

Well dne on your FDs, 43, lania
So exact, both of you !

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 12/02/2019 20:56

Absolute love aubergine pickle 🍆

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/02/2019 21:29

Thanks for that tip it's on my shopping list.

Yes bcf I think I may have done some damage as its so painful although I didn't feel anything at the time? Not sure I can cope with 6 weeks of healing though.... maybe a trip to gp is needed, thanks.

Yes I mfp everything bcf and it's actually been a while since I've managed a sub 500 fd even if only by 1 cal Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 12/02/2019 22:17

Yep, get it checked out, 43

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 13/02/2019 06:33

Morning all

Awake and checking in for my NFD.... currently sat in bed wondering how I've been a parent reasonably successfully for 12 years!Grin

Borris · 13/02/2019 08:01

So I’m a kg up this week. Now 1.5kg heavier than before Christmas. I know I had a wobble at the weekend so was expecting no loss but I’m seriously cheesed off as to how easy it is to gain