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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Iamblossom · 11/02/2019 19:21

Well done scruff mozz and chee!!

EssentialHummus · 11/02/2019 19:43

Oh harriet, hope it's a whoosh soon!

Kitchen closed here. I still haven't downloaded MFP so it's a back of a napkin calculation of one 423 cal ready meal with a cup of broccoli and cauliflower added (30 cal), 3x black coffees, one after-dinner jelly sweet.

Planning to do a b2b tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2019 19:53

Well done, Blossom, Hummus, scruffy, mozz, chee, TiP

snail I hope you get home soon to enjoy your FD supper

I hope your DS is better soon,Mozz

Several IBS sufferers have said that 5:2 helped or completely stopped symptoms.
TiP wasn't your DH one of them ?

blossom Joints tend to age more quickly than the rest of the bod

cheee You can have that choc tomorrow - if your loving family haven't scoffed it all !

OP posts:
Laniakea · 11/02/2019 19:54

fast day finished here too -

coffee x2 - 100
miso x2 - 60
shakshouka - 250

Ever predictable it is pretty much what I eat on every fast day Grin

Iamblossom · 11/02/2019 20:12

Already looking forward to my breakfast

TalkinPeece · 11/02/2019 20:29

BigChoc / Mozz
Yup, DH had IBS for years and years
he's not had it since we started 5:2

MozzchopsThirty · 11/02/2019 20:52

Wow that's amazing @TalkinPeece
Hopefully I'll be heading in that direction
The difference on a FD is startling

harriethoyle · 11/02/2019 20:59

I often eat the same on a FD too @lania just makes it so much easier!

Does anyone else find that by evening two on a b2b they are FULL of energy and struggle to get to sleep? Despite having a poor night last night, I'm full of beans tonight Grin

Kitchen closed on 640 tonight which is perfect for a b2b. Looking forward to brekkie tomorrow...!

Stepha85 · 11/02/2019 21:10

Hello everyone.

Well done to all of the Monday FDers - it seems like a good day to have a fast day, and I think that I will follow this when I start the 5:2 cycle properly. I'm just into week 2 so still on my 800 every day (doing fast 800). I managed to lose 7.5lb last week so pretty pleased. We went out for dinner last night as it was Chinese New Year in the week so had to wing it for the calorie count. Tried to have way more veggies than normal, no rice and just a taste of all of the main dishes. The food was delicious but quite salty so I think I may be holding some water today. It will be good to see how the weight comes down this week.

How does everyone else deal with that kind of day where you're not really in control of weighing and measuring?

Borris · 11/02/2019 21:32

Fd1 today of b2b. It’s gone ok. But I’m feeling like I’ve lost my 5:2 mojo 6 weeks after Christmas and I’m just lost the Christmas weight. And then next week it’s half term and I’m visiting family. I ended up eating half a jar of Nutella out the jar Blush last night.

I guess I need to draw a line under Nutella -gate and really work on my NFDs.

MozzchopsThirty · 11/02/2019 21:34

We all have days like that
Tomorrow is a new day

It's not Nutella every day so that's fine
Be kind to yourself Thanks

snailhunter · 11/02/2019 21:51

Kitchen closed here on around 550! Chicken was lovely. Snaildog then vomited all over my beautiful Radley bag. Not lovely. But cleaning dog sick off bag rather effectively put me off any further eating. Would anyone like a dog?

JcHcks · 11/02/2019 21:59

Kitchen closed on 443 Grin if you can go a day without eating anything is it better to do that or to eat something?

harriethoyle · 11/02/2019 22:53

@stepha that's brilliant! I would do exactly what you did. Lots of veggies, low on the carbs, avoid fried things and go for lean protein.

Great start!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/02/2019 00:12

Brilliant first week on Fast800, stepha

When you go out on Fast800, just keep making sensible choices like last night - lots of veg, no deep fried food or booze, no rice, small portions mains - and drink lots of water

If you know in advance you'll be out, then just have a v small breakfast or lunch

JC As TiP and I posted upthread:
Do NOT do zero cal FDs
The optimum to lose weight, retain muscle and give your body sufficient nutrients is around 500 cals

Well done on your FD, Lania, Borris, harriet, snail, JC

Borris Don't brood on your NFDs, but make a fresh start tomorrow

What helps NFDs:
Plan your day's menu in advance - no need to calorie count, but plan each meal preferably the evening before
... and stick to the plan

Also, keep the NO snacking & NHS alcohol limits rules

OP posts:
scruffybarnsley · 12/02/2019 07:02

Well done Monday fasters! There was a little army of us yesterday!

I'm going to do a B2B today (day 2). Although I'm busier later in the week, that will be a good opportunity for a mini and I think I should stick with my Mon/Tues routine. I'm feeling a little like Borris this week - I've lost my Christmas weight, people have said nice things, I'm going on holiday next week...all triggers to make me think "sod it, I'm fine now". But unfortunately for me my Christmas weight was the last in a long line of additional lbs gained so I still have around a stone to go which at the moment feels fairly hard.

I have no willpower Borris so if it's in the house I'll eat it. Therefore when I'm properly on it, I just can't buy anything that I know will derail me (mmm Nutella). It's a little blip in the grand scheme of things though, onwards and upwards.

Good luck anyone else fasting today Smile

Boxlikeahare · 12/02/2019 07:42

Hello everyone, good day for me yesterday, I got home a 10pm and went straight to bed. Food for the day was a slice of turkey from the deli counter, Puy lentils, salad, tomatoes. I did take 10ml of lemon olive oil and balsamic vinegar from lentils. I have a selection of posh flavoured oils from here, the little tins. They make anything taste luxurious!

That was it, I didn’t bother with yoghurt/fruit in the end, not sure what I will do today yet, depends on how tired I feel later on, I might feel the need for a NFD or not.

Laniakea · 12/02/2019 07:49

Well done Steph! That’s a brilliant loss.

EssentialHummus · 12/02/2019 08:09

Also checking in for a b2b, good luck to scruffy and anyone else on it today.

harriethoyle · 12/02/2019 08:46

I had a whoosh! Grin 1kg down. Feeling SLIM!!

Had a delicious sausage sandwich for breakfast and going to plunder my ready meals stash for lunch and dinner as am reuniting with my OH tomorrow and I suspect we'll have drinks and nice food. So if today's a mini, so much the better. Wine

Iamblossom · 12/02/2019 08:52

Well done harruet.

Whoever said about sleep ipthread, I find I am completely wired when I go to bed on a FD and it takes a while to drift off which is very unlike me.

I know we have said it before (in a thread title no less) but I love how fasting puts me back in control of my food intake rather than feeling it is the other way around.

Pound off from yesterday. Tried to be two but I'll take one. I weigh three times and our scales always gives me a different number the first time to the second and third...Hmm

harriethoyle · 12/02/2019 09:04

Me @iamblossom ! Last night I used lavender pillow spray and sometimes I'll take a couple of strong anti-histamines to get myself over. Sunday night was awful this week. It's weird!

Good progress on the 1lb 👊

Laniakea · 12/02/2019 09:14

Well done harrie & blossom too :)

I’m still avoiding the scales - will weigh myself next month I think!

I managed to get my size 16 (non stretch!) jeans on this morning - seem to have lost weight from my hips & legs - tummy is too big to do them up but I don’t think I could get them above my knees after Christmas! I’m sleeping so much better too - no indigestion, IBS is controllable - I think that’s even better than weight loss in terms of quality of life.

NFD today I haven’t decided what to eat yet.

OohMrDarcy · 12/02/2019 09:18

Morning all,

Checking in for a Tuesday FD here - got to make sure I'm extra good as its DDs birthday tomorrow - luckily she has chosen cottage pie for dinner so that is easy to cram extra veg into and keep delicious... there will be a trip to an ice cream place, but if I'm feeling strong I shall have a cup of tea and just a spoon of the kids!

Not 100% planned food for today as yet - suspect it will be along the lines of soup for lunch and an omelette for dinner - all with plenty of veggies obviously.

Well done all on the lovely SVs!

Borris, I'm sorry - I can't recall how much you have to lose, but focus on the christmas gains being gone - this is a very good thing! Keep going, and you'll be losing in no time

BigChocFrenzy · 12/02/2019 11:42

Congratulations on the whoosh, Harriet
You sound very positive today

Congrats on your SV too, Blossom

Re scales variations - do you follow the weighing guidelines, especially:
. scales in the same place on a hard, level surface - not carpet
. Switch on the scales and count to 3, so they have time to balance
, then step on - don't jump
. Keep still and don't lean to the side or back / front

Well done on your FD, Box
I like flavoured oils too, as a change, especially garlic
atm, I'm using healthy algae oil for salads & stirfry

Well done on your jeans NSV, Lania
and the IBS & indigestion NSVs - so important for your health & feeling good

scruff, borris I agree it's best not to have junk in the house that you find tough to resist
Will-power is often insufficient when impulse strikes,
but if it's not readily available, often we cba to actually go out and buy the crap, so the urge dies off.

Good luck on your b2b, scruff, hummus
and to MrD on your FD
and anyone else fasting

That's good planning for tomorrow, MrD
You're developing excellent veg habits

Also, some ice cream places have fruit too, in which case you could have a bowl of say berries or banana, with a spoonful of ice nicked from DD

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