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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2019 22:19

Your indulgences can't have been that high, blossom if you averaged that

What dominates weight loss is the size - or absence - of a decent weekly calorie deficit
If your TDEE is around 2000, you should be losing reasonably on that intake

OP posts:
scruffybarnsley · 11/02/2019 07:10

Morning all,

Checking in for FD 1. I usually do B2B on Mon & Tues but may not this week as am busier on Weds/Thurs this week so might be easier then. I always do Monday regardless as I like to start the week 'properly'.

I had two people ask if I've lost weight and one say I'm looking "trim" this weekend so I'll take that as a NSV. All while the scales say I put on 3lbs which I think I can safely say is a big, fat lie. I seem to fluctuate so much, so I just record my weight in my app each time I see a new low and that is around weekly/10 days.

Posting, and reading posts, on here is really helping me stay on it, thank you everyone. I am away for a half term holiday in Norway next week so I'm going to make this week count in preparation. Happy Monday!

Boxlikeahare · 11/02/2019 07:38

I am with you today barnsley, I am in the office from 9am until my last meeting finishes which will be 9:30 pm. I think I might just try for a decent late lunch along the lines of chicken breast, half a packet of puy lentils, salad, Greek yoghurt and blueberries.

There is zero chance of me cooking something healthy when I get home tonight.

Cheeeeislifenow · 11/02/2019 07:40

Hi guys checking in for the week.
The weekend was good to me, Saturday is my day to be a little easier strict,we had a lovely day out in Dublin, we got the train up and we did a. Tour of Trinity college and the National Library, we also toured National museum natural history museum and museum of archaeology!
We met up with DH's uncle and Aunt and we had dinner in them. U thought I had been really heavy on the. Calories but actually it was still under TDEE, I suppose I am getting used to no snacks/treats .
So I also inadvertently had a mini FD yesterday and ended up on 640 Cal's.
It was my weigh day today no loss at all, which I must admit I was surprised by as during the week I was down by 2 lb's.
Not to worry my clothes are feeling looser so I am sure the scales will reflect that next week!
It's a NFD for me today but I will be be busy as I have my volunteer work!
Well done weekend fasters! That's tough going when you are out of your normal routine!

EssentialHummus · 11/02/2019 07:45

Good morning! Checking in for a Monday fast. Hope everyone had good weekends.

It's TOTM for me so I'm not expecting a SV but sticking to my coffee and sparkling waters during the day, and then a good evening meal with a large helping of veg. Poor DD has conjunctivitis so I don't think it will be an easy day, but we'll make the best of it!

Good luck to all other Monday FDers. barnsley I'm also hoping to do a b2b tomorrow; I usually manage Monday and Tuesday.

QuackingDuck1985 · 11/02/2019 08:10

Good morning everyone, sorry I’ve been AWOL our Internet was cut off for a week. I’ve had to name change as I couldn’t get back into my account so had to make a new one.

I’m just placmarking but will be back in a bit to catch up with the thread.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/02/2019 08:38

morning everyone, what a busy weekend everyone had.... well done to all the weekend fasters Smile

Excellent SVs snail tip mrd and fab NSV scruffy
lania yes sometimes nfds are harder to navigate than SVs

bcf your meals out always sound delicious, and all this talk of cheese is making me drool a fellow cheese lover

Had an fab weekend in terms of DHs birthday etc but a rubbish weekend in terms of 5:2, NFD today and planning FD tomorrow and Friday I think....

Good luck monday fasters

OohMrDarcy · 11/02/2019 09:25

Morning all - happy Monday and all that.

Had a reasonably good weekend... my birthday is coming up (next week) so I'd planned to go out with a friend for dinner / cocktails... when it came to it I didn't fancy drinking so offered to drive us both. I went for OMAD to attempt to keep everything in check.

Had a single mocktail (fruit juice based - delicious)
Halloumi fries
chicken caesar salad
no dessert
plenty of water

Happy with that - I know it wasn't ideal, but it could have been a LOT worse! Weight only 2oz up today so I can take that no problem.

Current plan is fasting tomorrow / Friday - this is the busiest fortnight outside xmas in my house as its DD's birthday Wednesday and mine next Monday - so am planning carefully to attempt to stay on track!

Iamblossom · 11/02/2019 09:46

BCF my TDEE is 1500. Maybe it's wrong....Hmm

Anyway I was 8 10 on the scales this morning which I was delighted and surprised at. Planning a FD today, but still full of cold so will see how I go.

Tea will be a ham, peppers, and mushroom omelette with salad.

Iamblossom · 11/02/2019 09:50

and I consider yesterday to be an indulgent day coming it about 2030:

Big bowl of mini shredded wheat with skimmed milk and a teaspoon of sugar, banana

about a quarter of a big bag of kettle chips

0% greek yog with seeds and blueberries, 2 slices of wholemeal toast, one with peanut butter, one with an egg and cherry toms

big portion of fish pie with cauliflower and broccoli and peas

one medicinal G&T

Iamblossom · 11/02/2019 09:55

ok so recalculated my TDEE set at moderately active and it is telling me 1842 instead of 1500 which is what I was using.

snailhunter · 11/02/2019 09:55

Morning Monday fasters! I’m working out today so hopefully should be nicely distracted. Planning a week off next week as we are away for half term, so will be making this week count.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2019 12:28

Well done on your compliments NSV, scruffy

If you weigh daily, you'll see all sorts of blips, as weight varies naturally a bit, from day to day - digestion, water etc
A graph of typical 5:2 weight loss will look like a zig-zag, but trending downwards over the weeks
So, taking the lowest value ever 1-2 weeks as you do, is sensible

Well done on your clothes NSV, cheee
Don't worry, scales sometimes take a while to catch up with the lost inches
but it is the inches loss which best indicates lost bodyfat.

Box On FDs, my main meal is often a late lunch, with just soup or Greek yoghurt & berries in the evening

I hope miniHummus is soon well again, Hummus 💐

Welcome back, duck
I wondered if you were on hols

43 On special occasions like close family birthdays, you can happily feast
It's only a rare occasion and 5:2 has to fit your life like that.

MrD That was a tasty & healthy meal out
Good choices

Blossom With your activity level, I'd assume 1850+ even if you're another shorty

That's sensible, snail if you're away next week
to nail this week's FDs and be especially mindful on the NFDs

I'm having FD2 of my b2b today:

B: black coffee 10 minutes before
Fasted training - strength & flexibility, then 20 mins lifting
L: mixed nuts
PM - a sunny walk along the Rhine
S (about 5:30): Black Tiger prawns & big mixed salad

Good luck to all the other fasters !

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 11/02/2019 13:00

Got on the scales this morning and they hadn't shifted a fecking OUNCE since yesterday!! Am FEWMIN' !!

Am b2b today regardless - it was either crack on in the hope of a whoosh or fall face first into a bacon sarnie!

Just had a tuna sandwich on a wholmeal thin for 203 cals, then chilli with broccoli and a bit of cheese for a 450 dinner.

If I don't lose tomorrow I'm throwing the scales out thw window!

Good luck @bigchoc @scruffy @boxlike @essential @snail and any other Monday fasters x

TalkinPeece · 11/02/2019 13:30

Hi all,
NFD here for various reasons, but going to try to stick to about 900 calories (my TDEE is only 1500)
as my knees are hurting which tells me I'm over weight

Iamblossom · 11/02/2019 14:31

I bet you see a loss tomorrow though Harriet. BTW totally stealing "FEWMIN'" as my new fave written word. Excellent. Grin

Yup BCF I am in the 5 foot 3 inch gang although I pretend to be 5 foot 4 Hmm

Iamblossom · 11/02/2019 14:33

fast day going very well I wonder why I find it so much easier at home...

Have had a hard boiled egg, 3 breadsticks and a 0% greek yog with blueberries so far. Will have my veg and ham omelette around 5.30/6.

Two lovely long dog walks. Swerved the gym as am still a bit coldy.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/02/2019 15:35

Harriet If scales blips can send you off track, I recommend you avoid daily weighing

Weigh at most once weekly, naked first thing, on the morning after FD2
and even then, look at the treds over 2-3 weeks

Weight varies naturally from day to day and during different times of day, maybe by 1-2 lb
This is because of undigested food, differences in % water, hormonal swings etc
totm of course can bring several lb of retained water for some women

So, a blip can easily disguise the loss from just 1 FD, which would on average by only about 0.5 lb.

🤜🏼 Blossom Another at 5' 3"

Several of us shorties on these threads, because ntbo it is more difficult to stay at goal weight when your TDEE is lower than that of taller women friends;
and of course usually much lower than a male OH

Having to consistently eat & drink less than others around us, or make different choices, is difficult

TiP maybe your knees are telling you the weather is about to change Wink
or your yoga moves were a bit hard on them

  • I noticed in a class where we have to kneel (and contort ourselves) that my knees suffer,
so I have learned to use one of those blue foamy things and sometimes do alternate moves
OP posts:
snailhunter · 11/02/2019 18:02

Stuck at a train station fantasising about the lovely chicken and veg traybake that awaits me...

TalkinPeece · 11/02/2019 18:07

BigChoc
In Yoga today I needed 5 layers of mat under my knees to kneel
and yes, the weather does not help
but once I get back down to 9st (or 57kg in new money)
they pretty much stop hurting.
Am on bucket loads of ibuprofen at the moment.

Pork stir fry for supper tonight
very few noodles for me, lots for DH

Iamblossom · 11/02/2019 18:41

Ok so once I have had my options hot choc kitchen will close on 633. Pleased with that as pretty much a maintenance fast day. Smile

Iamblossom · 11/02/2019 18:42

I don't like kneeling much either....Hmm

Cheeeeislifenow · 11/02/2019 18:53

All my family eating chocolate around me ffs.....

scruffybarnsley · 11/02/2019 19:14

Today has been haaaarrrrd but I haven't cracked. Just about to eat the best dinner of my life :) or so it feels!

MozzchopsThirty · 11/02/2019 19:18

FD for me whilst being home with sick ds2

Much harder than being in work and closed on 630 calories

I actually feel good on my FD, no bloating, no IBS 😊 it's turning into a good day rather than a day to dread

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