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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Boxlikeahare · 09/02/2019 09:43

I can see how that would be easier parsley. I almost did a herbal tea, water and miso soup day last week but had a chicken salad because I felt I ought to!

I am hoping to fast today, let’s see if I can make it !! Plan is no food until dinner and then to just eat with everyone. Am thinking of cooking venison sausages from my butchers in red wine and juniper, thyme, garlic etc etc. I will just have one sausage and lots of veg.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/02/2019 10:13

Box Please do NOT copy the risky Zero-cal fasting
This is NOT recommended by Mosely, Varady or any responsible expert on fasting

Parsley: I strongly advise everyone against no-calorie fasting

Please consult your doctor before continuing with this unresearched WOE

What is healthy in moderation, using researched guidelines, can be risky when carried to extremes

Varady's research shows that longterm zero-cal fasting is NOT as effective for optimum muscle retention and fat loss
Losing muscle mass is unhealthy and also leads to a poorer flabbier shape

Regarding health, although there are many studies showing buffered fasting - i.e. with reduced calories - is healthy,
there is NOT the research to say zero-cal fasting is safe.

All the respected researchers into fasting for health reasons recommend against regular zero cal fasting,
with dangers cited such as increased risk of CVD (Cardio Vascular Disease)

The problems reported with Intermitten Fasting almost all come down to people taking IF to extremes and ignoring the recommended guidelines.
Examination of the results of several years IF strongly indicates that women's health is more sensitive to fasting and that we need to be more cautious than men, e.g. doing 14:10 rather than 16:8

Do NOT risk your health by going to extremes
If you have problems controlling eating once started, then this is an issue to address

OP posts:
TalkinPeece · 09/02/2019 10:35

Parsley65
I have been on these threads since number 2
and I was quoted in the original 5:2 book by MM
DO NOT do zero calories for more than 20 hours
its not good for you.

I often have just one meal a day - but I have gallons of white tea
and I make sure that my single meal is rich in micro nutrients.

Starving yourself is an eating disorder
and will damage your bones long term.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/02/2019 13:10

Just been playing ball with the Perpetual Motion Machine, my NDN's sweet little hound.
He starts off with a pure white shaggy coat and soon has black ears & paws
I start off full of energy and end up panting after a full HIIT workout

Off to the gym shortly for pump class

OP posts:
Laniakea · 09/02/2019 19:41

another fast day today - no headache but I'm still freezing.

coffee & milk x2 - 100
miso soup - 30
small piece of salmon & ratatouille - 350

I'm going to be more organised tomorrow - NFD - and have more protein.

Boxlikeahare · 09/02/2019 19:42

Thanks BCF I will bin that idea then!! It just seemed like it would be easy on a busy day, I prefer fasting on my two long very busy days at work and don't always feel hungry so feel like I am making myself eat.

None of this is helped by the fact that when I have a 12 or 13 hour day at work I don't have time to cook or prep anything first so I buy something to heat up in the microwave at work which I don't always enjoy.

Even when I do have something in the fridge I don't always fancy it (think I have been eating too much soup on fast days I am sick of it!).

TalkinPeece · 09/02/2019 20:12

Boxlike
If you work long shifts, have a look at things like microwave egg muffins - easy to carry and full of nutrients
Alternatively, have things like carrot sticks and cheese sticks as your mini meal at work
and then a full on three egg omelette with onions and cheese and herbs when you get home so that you sleep well

TalkinPeece · 09/02/2019 20:14

Checking in with tonight's supper
DH and I went old school - Keith Floyd's trout in newspaper
and it was LUSH
(and only £5 for the pair of us)

JcHcks · 09/02/2019 20:46

So you know I said on Friday that I weighed differently when I stepped on the scale a second time and I wasn't sure which weight to take and you all said take the lighter one. Well it turns out that you was all right! (Not that I doubted you 😉) I wasn't calibrating it and now when I do it matches every time and I am the lighter weight. It just made me happy cause I know 100% I was the lighter figure and just wanted to share ☺️

BigChocFrenzy · 09/02/2019 21:12

That's good news, JC !
Thanks for sharing 🙂

Well done, Lania
and good news that you didn't have a headache - the miso soup would have replensihed your salt and hence helped

As you adapt to fasting, it gets easier
Boosting lean protein would help - e.g. you get a lot of prawns for your calories, say in a veg stir fry.

Many people feel cold on an FD for the simple biological reason that you are taking in less fuel
so your body has to work harder to produce heat, as well as energy for movement etc.
Most of us pop on a fleece hoody Wink

Box take some raw veg to nibble if that helps break up a long shift
e.g. Raw carrot, celery, cucumber are all v low cal & healthy too - just avoid any dips or sauces and eat them on their own

If you like a meal at work, then stews & stirfries - masses of veg in both - warm up well in the MW
I like beans on FDs, instead of rice or pasta.
I also love big salads even in winter, Works for me

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 10/02/2019 09:45

Anyone fasting with me today? Have woken up late so getting to lunchtime should be a breeze Wink

Boxlikeahare · 10/02/2019 10:33

Not me harriet, NFD here. Back on it tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2019 12:08

I'm fasting too, harriet
Good luck to us both 🙂

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 10/02/2019 12:46

Fist bump @bigchoc - just had 203 calories of tuna sandwich using a warburtons thin 👊

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2019 13:04

🤜🏼 Harriet
I grabbed a few nuts before going to spin class and also lifted heavy weights for 20 mins
Just finished lunch: veg soup, olives & raw kale crackers

I might have a spinach & pepper omelette for supper < ponders >

OP posts:
TalkinPeece · 10/02/2019 16:52

Had a pub lunch today
but walked 3 miles to the pub and 3 miles back Halo

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2019 17:00

Halo indeed TiP

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 10/02/2019 17:24

Hi all.

So the week of debauchery was fairly as expected. Tuesday was fine but out for drinks Wednesday night so well over tdee - pub lunch and more booze plus birthday cake on Thursday - Friday not too bad but well over - and have been over yesterday and today as well. Have a stinking cold and been in bed all day today so no exercise, but it did mean we cancelled our night out at dinner with friends last night so could have been a lot worse.

Will see what tomorrow's weigh in brings in the morning but fully expecting to be 3-4 up on last week.

I was pleased though that my riding instructor told me I looked like I weighed next to nothing and put me at around 8 stone. She is wrong of course but I still felt happy she thought so.

harriethoyle · 10/02/2019 18:38

Chilli con carne with broccoli for tea, bringing me to 640 which works for tomorrow's b2b!

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2019 19:39

I hope that nasty cold goes soon, blossom
A good night's sleep should help

Well done on the FD, Harriet
I've finished mine too

OP posts:
Laniakea · 10/02/2019 20:07

NFD

3x coffee with milk - 150
English muffin with two poached eggs & spinach - 400
Lentil & sausage thing - 750

Loads of veg & more protein today. I might fast tomorrow I like to do one weekend day & get the other one over with at the start of the week - gives me time to fit in an extra one or a mini if needed!

harriethoyle · 10/02/2019 20:29

Yes @bigchoc! We have won at fasting Sunday Grin

Iamblossom · 10/02/2019 21:37

DH made Jamie Oliver's fish pie for tea. It was utterly delicious and great comfort food but double cream, butter galore! Oh well, every now and again and all that.

Iamblossom · 10/02/2019 21:40

If I look at my daily average calories using MFP though for this week and last I am roughly the same at 1660ish. And I lost last week...

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2019 22:16

🤜🏼 harriet good luck tomorrow
I often do Sun+Mon too, as my fav restaurants are closed !

I haven't decided yet about tomorrow
I have morning training, so I'll see how hungry I feel afterwards

Well done on your FD too, Lania
You really boosted the protein & veg, which should have helped you feel fuller

OP posts: