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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
OohMrDarcy · 07/02/2019 09:28

Morning all

Another NFD here - mostly because I'm not missing out on pulled pork!

good luck to the fasting gang, JC - positive mental attitude!!! You are going to rock it Smile

Cheese - my bladder did get used to it. When I first started I was up half the night weeing and every 30 mins in the day.... now, nowhere near as much and its a bad night if I wake once. So keep going, hopefully yours will get used to it too!

Laniakea · 07/02/2019 10:06

another old timer crawling back - as of this morning I have exactly four stones to lose (the same four stones I lost four years ago!). Will be doing the same as before - 2-3 fasts a week, one day current TDEE (1800), the rest goal TDEE (1400) - that gives me some flexibility for socialising etc.

What's changed from last time? I'm much healthier - I had a series of health collapses in the past 5 years which have finally been dealt with, mentally I'm well, I've been practically alcohol free for over a year, figured out what my migraine triggers are & I finally feel like I have the resources to take care of myself.

Anyway - fasting today :)

snailhunter · 07/02/2019 10:37

Hello newbies and good luck! How was your sourdough Granny? It can take a bit of practice but it's so worth it.

FD for me today, going fine so far but am fully expecting to have to pick up child from school today - he was moaning about having an earache and I suspect he's coming down with something. Boy, am I sick of winter. On the bright side, TOTM has FINALLy started and my boobs have gone back down to normal size and don't feel like I want to kill everyone in the world. I will enjoy this for a week until TOTM finishes and I go back to being pre-menstrual...

BigChocFrenzy · 07/02/2019 11:09

Good luck, Thursday fasters !
Horrid rainy day here, so I hope you all have something more cheery

JC Last FD was really good, so you are probably adapting well now.

MrD Mash is the potato equivalent of a smoothie:
much less chewing and raises insulin more quickly
So you are probably hungry sooner
Also has added cream / butter

Hence avoid on FDs

< peers under Box's hat & fake moustache >
Yup, we can still recognise a mate 😏

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 07/02/2019 11:21

cheee If you wake up in the night because you have to wee, then cut down the last 2 hours before bed

Otherwise, keep drinking - it's good for you and you need plenty of water to burn fat efficientöy

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 07/02/2019 11:27

Welcome back, Lania and good luck.
Well done on cutting back on alcohol

Now you feel well, you can concentrate on getting lean & fit again

This time, when you reach goal, let's plan a definite maintenance WOL
Almost everyone needs a definite plan, or we slip back into the same old habits that put the weight on

OP posts:
Borris · 07/02/2019 11:29

Good luck fasters.

NFD here but I’m meeting with STBXH in a minute to discuss moving the divorce forwards so it might all go Pete tong!!! On the plus side I’ve put nice clothes on and feel like my revenge body is well on the way so hopefully I’ll walk into the meeting with my head held high feeling confident

Boysmomma · 07/02/2019 11:31

Right, I'll be honest. I totally just blew out the rest of the weekend and the start of the week. I'm tired, run down and it's bloody hard carrying a clingy and tired two yr old and trying to clean, cook, get them out and give them the attention they're looking for. The boys are going to their dad's tonight (I hope) so I'm sleeping. It's just been one of those weeks, but it's over now and I've still a few days to right this one and get set up for next week!

I had started to write out replies to everyone's posts but there are SOOOOOO MANY!

Well done everyone on your SV, NSV, FD and bringing it back around, hi new joiners and re-joiners!

@43 that cake look amazing! Wow!

Good luck to anyone doing their FD today, I did a mini yesterday and another today. I'll start FD again next week when I'm back on track!

OohMrDarcy · 07/02/2019 11:35

Borris - good luck, and if it does descent into an argument (been there!) do NOT let it derail you.... revenge body continues!!!

Boys - don't worry about it, write it off and continue as if it didn't happen. Hope you get some rest tonight

greenelephantscarf · 07/02/2019 12:09

good luck boris tbh it sounds exhausting just thinking about it.

fasting today, on lunch break with my cup of bouillon.

will probably go back to 6:1 from next week for maintenance.

snailhunter · 07/02/2019 13:47

No such thing as a failed FD, boys, only a postponed one! You look after yourself and don't beat yourself up. No guilt allowed on this thread!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 07/02/2019 16:01

Welcome back lanika

Enjoy the pulled pork mrd you could make a carrot salad to go with it if you're looking for more veggies?

Hope your dc is not too poorly snail and enjoy the relief of no sore boobage while you can!!

How are you getting on jc

Hope the meeting goes well borris and flaunt that revenge body Smile

Thanks boys hope you manage to get some rest and feel rejuvenated soon Flowers

Well done so far green

Today has been tough so far, I've nearly caved 3 times and thought sod it.... but something is keeping me going today so I'm holding on!!! Send positive vibes Grin

Parsley65 · 07/02/2019 16:04

Hello all.

I'm new! Started on Monday, so this is day two and tummy is rumbling as I'm typing..
I have decided to eat nothing on fast days; just black coffee, mint tea and lots of water.
I'm 54 and need to lose at least two stone.
Hope to find inspiration, distraction and companionship on here Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 07/02/2019 17:43

Welcome parsley and good luck although what's your reasoning for not eating your 500cals on fds? My question would be why make it more difficult? You could skip breakfast then have a salad or soup for lunch and then some protein and veg for dinner, is that not preferable to just liquid?

JcHcks · 07/02/2019 17:52

Um...well I've had 2 creme eggs and some pasta so not great lol we're in middle of buying house atm so a bit stressed. I still feel confident for loss tomorrow though cause I've been under pretty much every day this week and my trousers are feeling looser 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

harriethoyle · 07/02/2019 18:48

FD fist bump @fortythree and @snail! Had a pret soup for lunch and fishcake and broccoli for tea in half an hour... will close at 482 if I stay strong! Off to get a diet coke Smile

harriethoyle · 07/02/2019 18:48

Excellent NSV @Jc Grin

Laniakea · 07/02/2019 19:08

Done here - I’m about to have a bath then do kids’ bedtime.

2x coffee + milk = 100
Miso soup = 30
2x veggie sausages = 150
Veg (broccoli, kale, grilled tomato)

I’ve had a niggly headache on & off but it’s been okay - main annoyance is that I’m cold.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 07/02/2019 19:34

Oh dear jc but well done on the trousers nsv Smile

High five Harriet an excellent fd from you. My kitchen closed at 591 so not great but I'm finding today a struggle so I'll take that.

Well done lania I freeze on fds so usually have soup and then try and get in a hot bath....

harriethoyle · 07/02/2019 19:38

Well done @laniakea - if you're not a veggie, for future reference, heck chipolatas are 150 for THREE! (How sad is it that I know this?!)

Boxlikeahare · 07/02/2019 19:42

Hello all, I failed today (or maybe I am postponing 😂). DD turned up at work after school and I took her out for an early dinner to a wine bar locally (only place serving food at 4:50 pm). Limited menu, I chose chicken breast with sweet potato fries. Didn’t eat it all but still very bad.

Tomorrow is another day, I will aim to be strict.

🏆 to the successful fasters and to Jc for losing inches.

TalkinPeece · 07/02/2019 19:54

Parsley
I am also 54 and have a stone to lose.
5:2 is for life, not just till target weight.
No calories at all is not healthy or sustainable.
THe 500 calories are there for a reason - use them, make them be full of micro nutrients.

TalkinPeece · 07/02/2019 19:56

Kitchen is closed after another good day.
Lunch was 75 g of dried apricots, raisins and cashews.
Supper was Boston Baked beans made with the left over haricots from last season's veg garden.
LUSH

EssentialHummus · 07/02/2019 20:29

Kitchen closed at 19.30 after a day of coffees with the tiniest splashes of milk in, then dinner of an Asian-style ready meal with a cup of broccoli and cauliflower chucked in. The meal was listed as 380 calories, so I think I'm at around 550 for the day? I've never been brilliant at counting exactly; it seemed about right. I'll have a big glass of water before bed, then done.

snailhunter · 07/02/2019 20:37

All done here - had to pick up child as expected but at least he was just happy to lie on sofa while I worked! Enjoyed my usual salmon and spinach, Greek yog and berries, and will have a ginger tea in a bit. Very pleased that I've managed two FDs this week despite being seriously unmotivated! Well done all fellow Thursday fasters!

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