Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2019 22:21

Well done, MrD

Flowers are a lovely idea for your reward

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 05/02/2019 22:23

Well done @mrd and @snail x

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/02/2019 22:31

Well done Tues fasters Smile
Totm made a very painful arrival this afternoon (couple of days early) the stomach cramps and shooting pains down my legs (does anyone else get these with onslaught of totm?) were unbearable and I decided I wasn't strong enough for my fd.... will attempt Thurs and possibly sat this week now as have plans every other day.

Excellent sv iam

Off to bed with paracetamol and my hot water bottle ...

Cheeeeislifenow · 05/02/2019 22:43

@forty I get those pains you describe all down the side of my thighs,isn't being a woman great! Hope the paracetamol kicks in and you feel better soon.
Successful FD today ending up on 423 which was great.
Lunch was plate of mixed salad leaves, tomato, and a chicken snack pack with some french dressing.
My dinner was Vietnamese pork again with stir fried veg and cauliflower rice.
And I had an orange too.
Meeting a friend for coffee tomorrow and I am going to be very aware of what I am eating I don't want to undo my good work today.
When I have lost a. Little bit of weight before, I have become complacent and I am not going to let that happen this time.
I am enjoying feeling more energetic and motivated to excercise as well.

Badwifey · 05/02/2019 22:44

Hi everyone, I started a thread but got directed here. I started my first day of 5:2 today And have found it really tough. I am so so hungry!!
I'm probably going to have to plan an awful lot better for my next day. I'm not sure yet when that will be. Possibly Monday.
I had planned on eating a large plain yoghurt and some berries for the day but around 3/4 pm I was just so so hungry so had two boiled eggs and some bread for dinner.
I think for my first day I've cone in just under 800kal which I feel a bit disappointed with but I'm sure it will get easier with practice.

Cheeeeislifenow · 05/02/2019 22:44

Well done OohMrD, those lovely flowers will be yours in no time.

Borris · 05/02/2019 22:50

Hi badwifey. You’ll get good advice here. I think the general advice is to ease yourself into fasting so 800 is ok to begin with. I find eggs tend to fill me up well so things like poached egg on toast or omelette work well for me. Also rice noodles and stir fry veg. And I find that the sugar free jellies which are

Cheeeeislifenow · 05/02/2019 22:55

Hi Bad wifey.. eggs are brilliant for a FD as they keep you full.
Don't worry it can be tough at first. I was never used to feeling hungry before to be honest. I feel for me sometime's it's mind over matter, I telly myself,"it's okay to be hungry, because you will enjoy your next meal".
Was the yogurt a natural yogurt, I find Greek yogurt is the most filling.
Plenty of people here can advise on the best thing to eat on a FD.

Me personally, I like either a chunky soup for lunch or a good salad. Then I normally eat a portion of whatever been are cooking like spag bol or whatever it is, but with extra vegetables no carbs. But some protein in there either through meat, lentils or with eggs.
Best of luck and post in here it is such a helpful group.

scruffybarnsley · 06/02/2019 07:11

Morning all,

Well done yesterday fasters. I completed my second day of B2B yesterday, nothing all day and then an M&S low cal ready meal and rocket salad. I am such an 'all or nothing' person - I found yesterday fairly tough as worked from two different cafes but as I was fasting I was just set on the fact I couldn't have anything. If I hadn't been then I would definitely have nailed a panini & chips, and maybe something much bigger. I think that's why I get on so well with 5:2 - the 'you can have it tomorrow' mentality is so complementary to my all or nothing mindset.

Welcome badwifey. Sounds like a great first attempt, it'll definitely get easier after a few weeks. Plan your meal(s) in advance and every time you get to the wave of "I'm so hungry I'm going to crack right now" have a glass of water first and then I usually find that it passes anyway without eating. Plus, added water benefits! Anyway, don't be disappointed, you made a great start Thanks

Well done all of yesterday's fellow fasters. I'm going to try and go for a jog today as not been for a week because of the weather and work. Have a lovely day everyone!

Iamblossom · 06/02/2019 07:43

Morning all. Welcome bad wifey. Good nfd yesterday, under tdee. Usual story now just need to try not to wreck it Ralph over the next few days which are full of drinks out, boozy lunch, birthday celebrations and dinner parties...ConfusedHmmShock

PeachScone · 06/02/2019 07:59

Have been finding this impossible so far!! Think I need to start eating later rather than aiming for breakfast and lunch. I’m starving when I get home otherwise and want to snack at everything! Refreshing from today - aiming for Monday’s and Wednesdays to be my FD days when I will just have lunch and some fruit either side. I’m busy both evenings so will be easier not to indulge elsewhere.

harriethoyle · 06/02/2019 08:27

Humph. 0.8kg up! Ballsacks Angry Going to aim for 1400 today and fast again tomorrow. I better shift downwards or I'll be furious!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/02/2019 08:34

morning everyone,

Yes cheee its just the best eh Grin well done on your FD and hope you enjoy your coffee and catch up with friend later

Welcome badwife and good luck, keep posting here for lots of advice and support

Well done scruffy you sound like you are in the 5:2 zone

Good luck iam lots to contend with but I'm sure you'll be fine.

peach do you mean times you eat on a FD? Its just about finding what suits you, I always skip breakfast, even on most NFDS but that's what suits me as I'd rather eat later. Good luck

NFD today, I was woken at 2am dripping with sweat and with an urge to be sick, which I was Envy, went back to sleep fine but feeling a bit bleurgh this morning so untypically for me I have had a bagel and a coffee and will see how i go....

Good luck weds fasters Smile

Badwifey · 06/02/2019 08:55

Thanks everyone for the support. I feel a bit better today about my attempt yesterday!! I'll definitely plan better next time. I'm sure it's all a bit trial and error at the beginning.

Can anyone tell me about 800kal being ok too or is it best to stick to 500kal?

greenelephantscarf · 06/02/2019 09:04

bad

there are no 'fails' with 5:2, we just potspone.
sometimes life gets in the way.

what do you want to achive with 5:2?
how much to lose?
bcf will probably around soon to ask questions and give advice.

but 800 is usually ok, edpecially in thd beginning.

Stepha85 · 06/02/2019 10:30

Hello badwifey,

I am doing the new fast 800 in Dr Moseley's new book. It seems to be that there are pros and cons for both approaches. I knew I wouldn't be able to do the first 2 week fast on 500kcal a day so I chose to do the 800kcal route. I have accepted that my weight loss might not be as fast, but I'd prefer that than to fail at the first hurdle.

Don't be too hard on yourself.

Steph

TalkinPeece · 06/02/2019 10:47

Badwifey
5:2 does not do failing
it just does taking a break
and after many months of fobbing myself off I'm back in the right frame of mind to get to happy weight (yet again) by my birthday (yet again)

SNACKS for the days when you really need to
I loathe snacking
but for folks new to fasting, the tummy and brain need training
Raw carrot - peel a whole raw carrot and munch on it slowly, Bugs Bunny style.
Sod all calories, takes a while, is good for you.

slinkyme · 06/02/2019 10:57

Badwifey honestly don't worry. Sounded like a good first FD to me.

I have been doing this for years and still blow it every once in a while and have fallen off several times.

Yesterday was FD. Manic manic day - of the type people wouldn't believe if I told them. Not sure why this keeps happening to me but that's a topic for another thread and life changes ahead. The good thing was it so hectic I had no time to post, eat, drink or even think about food until the evening. Survived on one cup of tea and one coffee al day. Broke fast in evening with heathy dinner under calories. Then blew it around 8pm with fresh baguette and butter. In my defence DH just got back from business in France and brought fresh baguette because I am a sucker for food from France. Weigh in today and not a single gram dropped. Oh well. Not sure if I will be able to do FD tomorrow as meeting a friend for lunch but hoping for Friday. Onwards we go.

EssentialHummus · 06/02/2019 11:02

Hi everyone,

I've been meaning to post for a while but wanted to introduce myself properly and not be in a rush. I've been 5:2ing since late last year to lose the baby weight (the baby is 17 months!) and really enjoy my fast days most of the time - I feel like I'm learning to think before I reach for the biscuits, crisps etc even on a NFD, especially in the evenings, when I'm prone to snacking. (My saving grace is that I'm not much of a drinker, at least.) It's also really clear how much of my snacking is either a response to stress or just because the treats are there.

I'm losing weight steadily, down from 83kg to current 76.1 (about 12 stone), so no longer "overweight" in terms of BMI but still with quite a bit to lose. I'm 5'8. I love updating my weight loss graph after each post-FD weigh-in! There was a period in the middle when my weight loss stalled, and in hindsight I think it was my portion control going out of kilter. At the moment I tend to go for healthy ready meals on FDs, so that I have certainty on calories. I'll bulk them up a bit with cauliflower or broccoli. Not my usual style, but it seems to work for me. I tend to have just coffee/fruit tea/water during the day, then an evening meal after I put DD down.

I'll try to pop in and say hello on fast days. This group is such a wonderful, positive resource FlowersBrew (the mug is full of Bovril of course Wink).

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss &  better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you
RosaPalma · 06/02/2019 12:18

Wow Essential lovely to see your progress. Well done. When you see the visual it shows how effective this WOE is. Where you are now is where I want to be in a few months. I am currently around 84.

In other news I am signing in for 2FD of the week. I have a really busy day ahead and plan to have a big bowl of veg soup with either a piece of poached fish or a boiled egg about five. Then I have a class and if hungry when I get home plan to have a cup of tea and a slice of sourdough.

Welcome aboard Badwifey and 800 cals is a pretty good start so well done to you.

Congrats to all other little successes whether they be NSV, loss or just not putting the extra piece of cake on your plate.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/02/2019 12:35

Welcome, badwifey 🙂
That's fine for a 1st FD
Eggs are good, protein is filling on FDs. Fish is brilliant too e.g. prawns, salmon
Have masses of veg and drink lots of water too

scruffy "I can have it tomorrow" works for many of us who can't face dieting daily,
but can be very strict for 2 days per week

Stay focused, blossom, so you don't undo all your hard work
Enjoy meals, with no nibbling between and stay within NHS limits on your various celebrations this week

Welcome, hummus 🙂
and thanks for the interesting graph - useful for everyone to see these examples

Well done on your SV - and that great healthy weight milestone
also on your healthier habits NSV
Excellent progress on all fronts.

I recommend the next healthy habit to work on is to add portions of different veg, FDs and NFDs
Also, drink lots of water every day.

To help avoid late night snacking, as soon as you have finished your evening meal, drink water and then clean your teeth - it really helps

800 cals
is recommended if you are lo carbing daily, or have a high TDEE (2400+) e.g. lots to lose / very tall / young intense exerciser / a bloke

Otherwise it's fine too if that's what is sustainable for you, or to ease into fasting
You just lose a bit more slowly than otherwise

(({{ cheee, 43, anyone who suffers badly at totm }}))
Hormones can be a bugger sometimes, but at least totm doesn't last forever - it just feels that way at the time !

Try to avoid the totm munchies, keep drinking water, keep good habits and the FD after the end of totm will release the retained water that is causing your bloat

OP posts:
PopGoesTheWeaz · 06/02/2019 12:49

hello all, just popping in as haven't for a while to say I'm now officially lower than my pre-christmas weight. And since it too flu to get me there last time (and therefore in my brain was not real loss) I'm quite chuffed.

I am wondering about my schedule as I currently B2B monday and tuesday which works well for me and I usually am under 550 both days but I like having that wiggle room. BUT I feel like 5 days in a row of "normal" eating is leading to loose habits and like I'm running a marathon in the beginning of the week and then lazing out until next time. That's not quite the case but I also know that religiously MFPing week in and out isn't going to work and I actually find quite disheartening and negative.

So, was thinking of trying M, W and Thursday mini (ie not eating until the afternoon). I'm at home on a Thursday so a bit of a challenge but if I can keep busy I should be able to manage. Or maybe keeping MT B2B and doing a mini Thursday anyway?

EssentialHummus · 06/02/2019 13:01

That’s great advice, thanks bcf.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/02/2019 13:10

Welcome back pop and well done on your SV
Yes, 3 minis could work for you, or try 2 non-consecutive FDs, e.g. Mon+Thur @ 500 cals

Before maintenance, I strongly recommend you use the NFDs to retrain "normal eating"
Otherwise, there is a strong danger of regain once you get to goal, which would be so frustrating for you after all your hard work

Is your problem snacking between meals / booze / sugary junk / takeaways / just portion size of reasonable healthy food ?
If you don't know, then just one week mfp would highlight which issues you need to tackle

OP posts:
DontFundHate · 06/02/2019 14:03

Hello! Can I join please? About to RTFT but what do you all think, I can't adapt evening meals so was thinking 3 X a week I would limit breakfast and lunch to 530kcal (basically working off the 800 a day fasting idea, but spread over 3 mornings and afternoons, i.e 800kcal for the 2 days would be 1600kcal, so that's 530kcal when split between 3 days with 2 meals, rather than 1600kcal over 2 days. Does that make sense at all?! Anyway I'm trying it this week so will let you know! I want to lose 12lb and already do an overnight fast of 14hrs