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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
flatpackbox · 05/02/2019 05:26

Checking in, I had a great day. Lentil soup for lunch and chicken salad for dinner. I didn't get in from work until nearly 10pm and sabotaged my day by eating a piece of toast. TOTM, tired and headache. Probably still less than 800 cals but still, a piece of toast Sad.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2019 07:30

Well done on your SV, cheee
You've burst through the first stone milestone !
That amount of lost fat will definitely have given you a loose clothes NSV too.

Well done on your FD, rosa, flatpack

That's fine, flatpack It's a piece of toast, not a donut and not sabotage
It's completely trivial

If you're worried about late night nibbling in the future, then handy tip:

When your last meal is at work, clean your teeth as soon as you get home & use mouthwash if you have it - gives a fresh taste and really discourages further eating
I plonk myself on the loo and combine the 2 tasks !

If the last meal is at home, then as soon as you have finished eating, drink a glass of water, clean your teeth.

That's a good first FD, Stepha

It usually takes 2-3 weeks until your body adapts to fasting
So especially on these early FDs, remember to glug down a teasp Marmite mid-morning & mid-afternoon and drink lots of water

This is also a good time to set up healthy habits for life, retraining your "normal maintenance eating" on NFDs -
5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

  • NHS alcohol limits,
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,
  • have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
  • lots of water & veg
  • cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones
OP posts:
CheshireSplat · 05/02/2019 07:35

Just read through this thread after a few months away and pleased to hear some familiar names are doing so well. 43 you're so close, well done! Was interested to see that even TiP struggles with 5:2 sometimes.

I stopped doing 5:2 as I couldn't crack my NFDs. My 2 FDs were really just allowing myself to maintain. Am doing much better now, trying to eat more sensibly, and concentrating on health rather than looks is definitely a good motivator for me. Plus got a 10k PB in October which was really good for my head!

I'm sure I'll be back some time, I've just started the odd quasi-FD on a Monday.

Well done, everyone, you're still an inspiration to the lurkers.

harriethoyle · 05/02/2019 07:49

@flatpack a piece of toast with topping will be no more than 200 cals. Don't beat yourself up - you must still have saved hundreds of cals yesterday!

anyone else with me today? Early starts make FDs HARD imo Shock

flatpackbox · 05/02/2019 07:55

It was crap white bread! Booths is my nearest supermarket with a bakery. I usually buy a big bells sourdough at the weekend but they had sold out and only had two split white farmhouse loaves.

I didn’t put anything on It, but that doesn’t negate the fact that I had a million and one healthy choices that I ignored. I had been at work since 8am, tired, maxed out on painkillers.

I am not sure if I have lost weight as I haven’t been weighing myself but my trousers were definitely looser yesterday.

OohMrDarcy · 05/02/2019 08:20

I'm in for a FD today,

One interesting thing I've noticed, is I've regularly been closer to goal TDEE than current.... around 400 under and yet most of the time I'm only losing on FDs. BigChoc I remember you saying first time round that some people's bodies held onto it more because of being quite overweight for a while or something... do you think that could be it? If so, am I doing the right thing eating around goal TDEE?

Cheeeeislifenow · 05/02/2019 08:22

@flatpack bread is my weakness too and I was on my period this week as FD for me today as well.
Good luck all.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/02/2019 08:42

well done borris scruffy rosa steph and flat (and any other fasters I missed....)

Excellent SV cheee really well done

harriet and mrd I'm fasting today too, really looking forward to resetting my eating after such an indulgent long weekend Grin

Hello cheshire lovely to hear from you and what an amazing 10k achievement, good luck with your quasi FDs, hope to 'see' you back on here again soon Smile

snailhunter · 05/02/2019 10:01

FD for me today - missed my usual Thursday last week owing to lunch with old friend, and was planning to do it yesterday but woke up feeling like absolute pants with the rain hammering down. So here I am today!

I am having an absolutely rubbish time at the moment with perimenopause - since the beginning of January I've either been having a period or been in this horrendous pre-period phase where my breasts get massively tender and painful and I feel incredibly tearful and snappy. Then as soon as the period is over, it starts again! I haven't lost a single pound, despite sticking to fasting, and I am started to feel thoroughly fed up. Any suggestions on how to go forward? I'm already doing all the things suggested by the NHS re peri - tons of regular exercise, healthy eating, no booze, no smoking - and I just don't see how I can eat less than I already do without it being totally unsustainable and no fun at all. Right, rant over, and well done to all of you who are keepin' on! Ignore my whinging: you are all doing great.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/02/2019 11:37

oh snail whinge away, that sounds thoroughly miserable and so demotivating for you. Have you been to the GP to see if they can help alleviate any of the symptoms in any way (although they probably wont until you are in menopause?) are there any supplements that might help? It sounds like you can't do much else 5:2 wise, I can't remember if you have a little or a lot to lose?

Hopefully others that have gone through it can offer more advice, I'm just hitting peri-meno myself, so i'll be taking notes, at the moment I'm just getting the constant sore boobage, so tender and painful, and much much worse snappiness [hmmm]

Flowers for you...

littlemoon86 · 05/02/2019 11:44

I’m back from holiday and doing a FD today. Orange for breakfast, tuna salad for lunch and probably small ready meal later. Good luck anyone else fasting today 😀

Iamblossom · 05/02/2019 13:43

So the elusive 8 9 showed on the scales this morning, so that is 2 off since yesterday, 4 down since I started fasting this time round and 4 off my lowest adult weight ever. Very pleased.

If I can just see that on monday’s weigh in will be chuffed.

RosaPalma · 05/02/2019 13:51

Oh snail I hear you Flowers. I have recently started the peri phase and so far it is a bit of a nightmare. My boobs are constantly sore and the period pains are horrendous. I can't wait for it all to be over.

flatpackbox · 05/02/2019 14:39

Flowers to all fellow peri people - it is truly bloody miserable at times.

snailhunter · 05/02/2019 14:50

Ah, I have some fellow sufferers! Sympathies to all my fellow sore boobage ladies. Excellent, we can all whinge together.

43 I don't actually have a lot to lose - I seem to be fluctuating between 10st and 10st 3-4 at the moment which is still healthy weight on BMI (I'm 5' 4") but it's upper healthy weight and I really don't want to lose control during this time - I've heard so many horror stories of women putting on loads during perimenopause and not noticing, and then it's impossible to lose. So was really hoping to get under 10st, which is what I managed most of last year, but it just feels impossible right now. I'm wondering if I should just stop weighing but again, I don't want to lose that awareness of weight.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2019 15:10

Well done on your SV, Blossom
and on returning to Happy Weight Range

flatpack Well done on your loose trousers NSV
When you are losing inches, you are losing fat, so it sounds like you are progressing well
No need to weigh if it worries you, or if you don't have scales

Welcom back, cheshire and well done on your running PB last year

snail Hormones are a bugger
Sounds like 5:2 is at least preventing you from gaining, which is really important.
I recommend you keep weighing to check you are maintaining.

You may find you lose very slowly, 1lb every month or two, which is what happens when you are doing everything right, but your bod is hanging on to its remaining fat.

I'll stick a geeky post on later about what is happening re hormones for all of us at this life stage and post-meno,
with some tips about what can work.

MrD Weight loss tends to be slower if you've had the extra a long time
However, it's all doable, so don't worry.
You are losing at the rate

If you are weighing daily, then there'll be lot of blips.
You'll probably only notice loss after an FD, because of the larger calorie deficit, but if you are 400 under TDEE on NFDs you'll be losing over the week with that too, only it's not as noticeable

e.g. 400 x 5NFDs = 2000 calories, which represents about ⅔ lb extra over the week - you won't see this on a daily basis.

Eating to goal TDEE on some other NFDs is a useful trick I mentioned when you lost weight the first time (while you were also getting rid of that useless 12 stone of your ex !)
It not only accelerates overll loss, but even more important, it trains you to eat the way you will need to eat at goal wegiht, to maintain

My recommendation:
Eat up to your full TDEE on at least 1 NFD per week, both for sustainability and to keep your metabolism high

On other NFDs, sustainability over the longterm is more important than slightly quicker loss, so if you feel hungry, then eat up to TDEE

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 05/02/2019 16:49

Thanks for the info BigChoc

Definitely not worried, I'm losing at a pace I'm happy with, just found it interesting that I've been just over goal TDEE the 3 days since last FD - and not an ounce down on the scales this morning (weigh about 3 x a week just for info... not bothered by blips).

Tbh at the moment I'd struggle to eat to current TDEE (which is amazing itsself given I clearly have been for some time!) Goal would be about 1600 and I'm eating about 1700 at the moment on average.

Sending non squishy hugs to all the peri ladies, sounds horrendous! Not looking forward to hitting that stage myself! And another reason I want to sort my metabolism and get to a healthy weight now!

Blossom - yay to happy weight!

Borris · 05/02/2019 19:09

Successful FD .... but it was hard work! Felt starving from about 4-6.30pm when I had dinner. Off for a bath in a minute

harriethoyle · 05/02/2019 19:25

Same @Borris - it's been a long, cold and hungry day! Kitchen is closing on 559 and I've settled down to do some work with a pint of water to keep hydrated Grin

TalkinPeece · 05/02/2019 19:41

I'd forgotten how good the daily checking is for my self control.
NFD today
small sandwich for lunch and then a pasta and mackerel salad for supper
BUT I kept my portions small
so I'm starting to feel back in the zone.

snailhunter · 05/02/2019 20:11

Well done all the Tuesday fasters! Kitchen closed here too on around 550. Today has been very tough psychologically but I'm very glad I made myself do it - feeling back in the zone now as well, TiP. I'm fascinated by how much of my fast day success is just down to how I feel emotionally rather than how hungry I feel. It's really made me think of how I use food and how easy it is to fall into the emotional eating trap.

greenelephantscarf · 05/02/2019 20:16

kitchen closed at

well done tuesday fasters.
I agree it's sometimes surprising which days go better than others.
today was good, even managed to give a presentant at work without my stomach doing the talking

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2019 20:16

Well done on your FD, Borris, Snail

Now you're back in the fasting WOL, TiP

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2019 20:18

Well done, Harriet

Sounds good, MrD

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 05/02/2019 21:02

Another successful FD kitchen closed. Well done to all the other Tuesday fasters!

I've decided when I get to my next mini goal - 20lb I'm buying myself some flowers... you never know there might be a hint of spring in the air by then too