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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
HLBug · 01/02/2019 20:12

Evening all. I can't begin to tell you how cold NE Scotland is at the moment. Brrrrrrr. I did a FD Monday and Mini Wednesday but every other day has been comfort (junk) this week. Surprisingly not too far over TDEE though. I feel like my body could do with a FD over the weekend I have a break...but it's sooooo coooold.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 20:38

Well done on your FD, Borris
and on womanfully resisting 🍩

Still deep snow here and the days are so short - I hate winter because of that
< shivers in sympathy with bug >

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/02/2019 21:42

How deep is your snow bcf it feels like it was only the other day that you were saying it was warm and sunny? Brrrr
I have had my heating on ALL DAY (sobs at the thought of the bill)

Cake is looking good and I had a wee taste of the buttercream which is amazing I'll post a pic if it turns out okay...looking forward to a slice tomorrow

Well done borris resisting the donuts and choc, bacon brunch sounds much more satisfying Smile

bug it is freezing. ... maybe a big bowl of soup?

Borris · 01/02/2019 21:52

Oh yes 43. Do post a picture of the cake 🎂

JcHcks · 01/02/2019 22:02

I've ate sooo much rubbish today!! I've ate a large pack of malteasers, 2 creme eggs, ham and cheese panni, cup cake and cheesy pasta and clearly well over my tdee 🤦🏻‍♀️ its the first time since I've started that I've gone this crazy and hoping that will be it for a while! Blaming my totm 😂

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 22:32

Don't worry, JC It's just one day, probably a mix of totm and tgif
Clean your teeth, go to bed and try to make good choices tomorrow

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 22:35

43 We'd only had 1 day snow before this week.
The paths are at the deep slushy stage unless cleared
The roads are kept clear , German efficiency Wink with snow piled up high along the sides
but far too slippery for jogs or long walks along the Rhine

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/02/2019 22:37

Oh no jc that's rubbish. ... have you mfp'd it to see just how bad it is, might help in terms of shaving off extra calories from your next few nfds to compensate? More importantly, any reasons that might have contributed to it, did you say upthread it was totm?

Anyway, draw a line under it and plan your next fd, we've all fallen off the wagon at dome point Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/02/2019 22:39

You gotta love that German efficiency bcf we could've done with a sprinkling of that here in the UK! Grin

Boysmomma · 02/02/2019 07:59

Thanks @Borris it's hard alright. But we're doing good for our DC and that's what they'll remember! Oh donuts, yum! Well done for resisting, although with a promise of a bacon butty today I'm sure it was worth it Grin have a lovely time!

@BCF oh I'm so jealous, it's been years (over a decade!!!) Since I was in Munich but the snow was amazing! I can't wait for the boys to be older so I can bring them! I bet the novelty has worn a bit for you now though and you can't wait for it to melt!

@43 oh that sounds wonderful! Please post a picture if you can, hope the party was great!

@Jc we've all done it (and will do it again no doubt) sometimes you just need a blow out. Don't dwell on it Flowers

Kitchen closed on 667, slightly over but that's the extra coffee, it's fuckin baltic here! FD 2 here today, good luck Saturday fasters

slinkyme · 02/02/2019 09:38

Well what a washout of a week. Only managed one FD this week. It all came this week - the TOTM (bad one this time), snow, kids off from school and major crisis deadline at work. So it was all toast tea and chocolate here. I feel exhausted and will start FD fresh again next week. Good luck to any weekend FDers and hope you are all keeping warm wherever you are.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2019 09:42

I'm fasting, my first FD in nearly 2 weeks, because of my tum upset
Anyone else today ?

boys, 43 I hate snow & ice
(so will you when you get on a bit and realise your bones wouldn't bounce if you fell)

I'm here for the gorgeous 8 months Spring to Autumn on the Rhine
Sunny summers instead of just warmer rain

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2019 09:45

Don't worry, slinky
Relax this weekend - but support your bod with nutritious food
Avoid the horrid totm munchies
then back to your regualr fasting schedule next week

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 02/02/2019 15:20

@bigchoc I'm fasting with you today! Had the dog at the vets at 12.30 so kind of got past the hungry lunch bit. Going to try and push through to 6 and have a huge stir fry with noodles for tea Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/02/2019 15:24

Oh bcf I hate the snow already...

slinky don't stress about it...
harriet hope ddog is okay?

Trying to attach pic of cake, not sure its worked though... kind of looks okay from a distance Grin hope it tastes better than it looks!!!

harriethoyle · 02/02/2019 16:01

He's fine thanks @fortythree just needed some blood tests because he's getting on a bit and is on loads of meds. So just checking that there aren't any side effects

MozzchopsThirty · 02/02/2019 16:07

I am so hungover
I've just ordered a large dominos pizza and potato wedges

I'll have to write today off

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/02/2019 16:09

that's good to hear harriet

oh dear mozz sounds like you had a good night :)

trying again with the pic...

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss &  better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you
Ta1kinPeace · 02/02/2019 17:33

Am UTTERLY failing at the moment.
Just cannot get my head into the right place to do proper fasting days.
And its too cold to eat light fluffy salad type foods ....

greenelephantscarf · 02/02/2019 17:41

a very cool cake 43

not fasting, but had a large breakfast an am not yet hungry. pizza & salad for dinner.

greenelephantscarf · 02/02/2019 17:43

talkin how about a pile of steamed or roasted veg? or veg soup?

spicey roast carrots, parsnip, pumpkin, cabbage are delicious and comforting.

harriethoyle · 02/02/2019 18:13

@fortythree that cake is brill!!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2019 18:16

@TiP could you manage the 3 miniFD system?
Mon+Wed+Fri on sub-1000
You could have 3 small or 2 substantial meals

That cake looks amazing, 43
You are very talented

Mozz If you fancy a blowout, much better to have a homemade one,
even buy frozen in case such an evening strikes
e.g. a thincrust supermarket pizza with baked fries you just stick in the oven
would be a filling feast

I hope DDog is ok, Harriet

OP posts:
Ta1kinPeace · 02/02/2019 18:46

BigChoc
Ooh, that is doable.
I'll get re focused next week ~ you are brill

JcHcks · 02/02/2019 20:10

Thanks guys I'll try and pull it back next week. Hopefully it was just one blowout, be gutted if I put on another pound so I'll try extra hard next week to be good Grin