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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
OohMrDarcy · 31/01/2019 19:06

Boys, hope your DC are feeling better soon!

Pumper sorry to see you are struggling. Nearly there for today though, take it an hour at a time and get through the day

FD kitchen closed for me on 510 so I'm a happy bunny. Got my hoodie on and a bottle of water.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 31/01/2019 19:09

Excellent sv harriet fab!!

mrd medium Starbucks one is about 120cals, it's put me over today at around 660cals but I'm taking that as it's been do cold and a real struggle.

Wow stir such an inspirational post, I hope I can get to maintenance this year Smile

Welcome back stego

Oh boys that sounds super stressful, hope your dc's are on the mend soon, what an are your stbex is.... hope you get some help and get to have a bit of time for yourself Flowers

pumper just write it off for today and have a good tdee with lots of nutritious food, move it to another day or just focus on healthy nfds until Monday. Flowers for you too, you sound stressed....

No buttercream yet bcf , even for ddog, I baked the cakes today but not had time to do anything else so buttercream it is tomorrow. I stupidly said I'd make him whatever he fancied and ds chose a bloody minecraft cake which involes lots of tiny different coloured squares of icing that need to be stuck on the buttercream, God help me tomorrow! ! Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 31/01/2019 19:10

'Arse'

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 19:24

Well done, MrD
Snuggle up in the hoodie, drink water and then clean your teeth, so you don't accidentally nibble

43 I read your post understanding you'd told DDog you'd bake whatever he fancied 😂
Natural if he were a DCat of course - you'd just be in normal service to your feline overlord

Take a break and stock up on sleep, pumper

re progress, 2 main scenarios:

Is your BMI now well within the healthy range ?
If so, further progress might indeed be 1lb per month, a rate which totm could easily hide.

  1. If not, then you are almost certainly eating back the FD defiict over the 5 NFDs In which you need to retrain your "normal eating"
  • best way to do that is to mfp absolutely everything for 1 full week, to highlight calorie bombs - treats, boooze, takeaways ... - , portion size etc so you can decide what to change You probably are overlooking / misjudging some of what you eat or drink.
OP posts:
MozzchopsThirty · 31/01/2019 19:54

I managed 11 hours sleep last night 🤣🤣
NFD for me today and have finished on about 1400 calories

I think I'm going to fast Sunday
I'm visiting my mother so really my day couldn't be any worse Hmm

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 31/01/2019 20:02

Ha ha bcf Grin now if ddog could talk, I shudder to think of the constant demands for more food...

Ooh 11 hours sounds bliss mozz, hope your visit woth your mum isn't too bad...

MozzchopsThirty · 31/01/2019 20:40

Any idea on what I could take and eat in the car?
It's a 6 hour round trip so I need to be prepared

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 31/01/2019 20:57

Hhhmmm, soup in a flask? Or an omelette if you don't mind them cold?

OohMrDarcy · 31/01/2019 21:17

Boys - apologies, I meant to reply about the useless STBXH too - I can empathise, I've got an EXH just the same!

43 - hey, if that got you through then it worked didn't it! Not like you do it all the time!

Mozz - 11 hrs sleep! I'm jealous! My youngest is an early bird (unlike his mother!) and has trained me so well in his 9 years that I now rarely need my alarm.... Good luck with your sunday visit and FD!

I'd go with some prepped raw carrot / cucumber / celery for the car if it was me, if you like cold boiled eggs they could be useful too.

BigChoc - consider me snuggled up and watching the snow attempt to fall, quite pitifully it is doing if I do say so myself.

MozzchopsThirty · 31/01/2019 21:51

Thank you Smile
Soup seems like a good option
Maybe some boiled eggs for lunch with tuna maybe?

flatpackbox · 31/01/2019 22:09

Hello everyone, successful fast day here again, no 3 since Monday, I am aiming for 5 fast days this week (started on Monday). I am not finding it too hard. No carbs is good for my stomach - much less bloated already.

Nice to read about everyone's day - I hope poorly children are better, Pumper managed a nap and the cake makers had a good day!

Cheeeeislifenow · 31/01/2019 22:43

Hiya folks didn't check in all day but ended up on 444 which is great and I must admit hard today.
I have a horrible period, making me very tired, it's freezing cold and people keep offering me chocolate!
I reminded myself today that not once since I started on 5:2 have I given in to a craving. I really think that's something to be proud of and it's proof that I have got will power. Well done all the fasters today.
I'll catch up on the thread properly tomorrow, but for now bed is calling!

JcHcks · 01/02/2019 06:47

Well I weighed myself and I'm 1 pound up 😞 I'm hoping it's just due to totm so I'll try and not get down about it

OohMrDarcy · 01/02/2019 07:10

Morning all

Weekly weigh in done, and I'm 2 and a bit (2oz) down... that means I've now lost a total of 15.2lb

JC fingers crossed it is just TOTM

Well done to cheese and flatpack for successful FDs

greenelephantscarf · 01/02/2019 07:20

here you all are!

wasn't fasting last week, was off sick with a flu-ish infection. but am better now (still not 100%)

the scales say my christmas gain is off again.

good luck fellow friday fasters

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 01/02/2019 07:33

SV: I am finally in the 10s! 10 stone 13.8, to be precise, but I will most definitely take that! Grin Loss of 2.2lbs - and both FDs this week were a little over and more like 700!

stegosauruslady · 01/02/2019 08:41

Morning!

1000 calorie FDs feel do-able actually BigChoc, I might give one a go when DP is back at work next week (he has been off for seven weeks now!).

My Dad is up from London for the weekend to meet the baby, so I'm having a teeny lunch today as we are going out for lovely pizza tonight. Ideally I'd balance it with some long walks but I have a disability that affects my balance so I'm awful at walking in the ice!

OohMrDarcy · 01/02/2019 09:07

Congrats Cheddar!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/02/2019 09:47

Yay well done cheddar fab sv Smile

jc don't worry about it if totm is on its way, weigh again on your fd after totm and I'm sure you'll see a loss. Don't get disheartened.

Fab sv mrd and a great total so far!!

Well done green

2lbs off this week, 33lbs in total and just .5 away from healthy bmi...

OohMrDarcy · 01/02/2019 09:57

43 congrats on the SV - how exciting to be that close to healthy bmi!

Boysmomma · 01/02/2019 10:54

Thanks @Big they're feeling much better, slept 13hours straight lat night so I got some cooking and food pep done and a clean kitchen, I can't tell you how happy that makes me! And no, he's not a nice character, been on here a few times about him!

I'm having a FD today, yesterday went out the window! It's wet and cold and I was just way to worn out!

@Pumper that sucks, fingers crossed for TOTM, I'm a painfully slow loser after 2 kids, the long days, broken sleep, inability to exercise when I'm actually comfortable to and instead squeezing it between 2 lots of broken sleep and wash loads Grin Good luck, February is all yours!

@MrDarcy they are well and truly over the worst of it thankfully! It's just very hard sometimes, sorry you're suffering the same it's the look on DS1's face when I tell him. On the plus side that's an amazing FD an a great loss to show for it! Well done!

@43 yes, he's a piece of work alright. Oh DS1 is obsessed with minecraft! I made a cake for his birthday just before xmas and just stuck lego minecraft on it Blush I would definitely not have that level of skill! Well done on your SV, good luck today!

@Mozz that sounds like a wonderfully long sleep, what's your trick! Good luck Sunday Flowers I enjoy apple slices, celery and carrot sticks all prepped and no mess! Humus/peanut butter if you're feeling it Grin

@flat wow that is some feat! I can barely mange the 2, well done! Good luck!

@Cheeeis that's a great FD and well done on the cravings, I make excuses for myself, its very bad!

@Jc totm is all things evil! Mine is due to start tomorrow, the pain and bloating is like nothing else!

Well doen @green!

@Cheddar that's fantastic congratulations! What's your treat? Massage, spa day, mani pedi???

@Stego, oh enjoy lunch and seeing your dad!

Good luck Friday Fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 11:14

That's a brilliant NSV; cheee never giving into cravings

Well done on your SVs, green, cheddar,MrD
Welcome to the 10 stone somethings, cheddar

Wow, 43 well done
You must think up a really enjoyable non-food reward, to celebrate when you get into healthy BMI

Take care of yourself, green if you are not yet 100%
Lots of sleep and concentrate on nutritious food to support your immune system; cut out alcohol and junk for a while.

stego Best stay safe in this weather and avoid ice
You can have long walks when it's gone - I haven't had a Rhine walk or jog for 2 weeks now, because of the danger of falls.

JC I always say NOT to weigh during totm if you gte depressed by scales.
The hormonal changes cause temporary water retention - but you must keep drinking water or it'll be worse
With some women, it's several lb.

The next FD after the end of totm will release the retained water

Just keep drinking water and avoid totm munchies and the hormonal urge to eat sugary fatty junk

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/02/2019 13:43

I don't think I explained that post very well, .5 away = 4lbs.... so I still have a wee while to go but it's so close :-)

Good to hear your dc are better boys I wish I'd done what you did.... have found a tool that will cut squares out of icing though so hoping that will help!!! Just about to put chocolate orange buttercream on.... I must resist Grin

Borris · 01/02/2019 18:24

Stay strong 💪🏻 43 Grin

Borris · 01/02/2019 18:32

@jch don’t worry too much about that lb. I bet you’ll have a whoosh next week.

@mrd and @cheddar well done on the loss

@green great to be back at pre Christmas weight. Fingers crossed I’m joining you there tomorrow!

@boysmomma sadly I’m with you on the horrible STBXH department. I call the new me my ‘revenge body’ which makes people laugh at work. He was always on at me to lose weight

@bcf I bet you’re missing your Rhine walks. Can you ski near where you live? I’m very jealous if you can!!!

FD gone well today. I resisted a really yummy plate of donuts at work and a box of chocs. I did a quick calculation of whether to delay FD for tomorrow but decided it wasn’t worth it for a donut. Plus I’m meant to be having bacon sandwich brunch with a friend tomorrow so I would have had to either cancel or just drink tea!

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