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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Borris · 02/02/2019 20:30

I’m also loving the cake. It’s amazing

Hope your fast has gone well bcf.

My weigh in today was good. I’m down to my pre Christmas weight so onwards and downwards.

Goodish nfd today. I’m working all weekend which makes alcohol easily avoided.

I had my bacon butty this morning, a donut for lunch (oops!) and now having oven cooked scampi and chips with fruit after. Not the most nutritious but under TDEE so I’m happy.

Planning a home cooked curry tomorrow and then FDs mon and tues.

I agree with whoever said that FDs and in fact even healthy NFDs are easier in the summer when salads are so much more appealing

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/02/2019 20:41

tip it's so hard when cold, I just stick to soup to warm me on rrally cold fds and a hot bath to warm my bones.... 3×1000 is a good plan though.

Well done on your sv borris fab Smile

If you pull it back and have 2 good fds you'll be fine jc

Just been out for da birthday pub meal, good grief I can't move! I only had a bowl if veg soup and a v v small roll all day in anticipation of eating out, just had 1 slice of garlic bread followed by chicken burger and chips (I wanted chicken skewers and salad but they'd sold out) I didn't eat the bun but the chips were proper fat homemade ones and I couldn't resist.... needless to say I'm stuffed! Having to have a bourbon as a digestiv Wink

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/02/2019 20:43

God I really should spell check. ... 'ds' birthday meal Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2019 20:44

Go for it, TiP
From results on these threads, it produces about the same loss as regular 5:2

That sounds a reasonable enough Saturday NFD, Borris
Being cautious, I made today a miniFD and it was fine

JC If weigh in Monday, don't get depressed
Any weekend can be pulled back with patience

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2019 20:46

JC try to focus tomorrow, so it's just Saturday that's indulgent
Less to pull back.

Sounds a lovely celebration meal, 43

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 02/02/2019 20:54

My kitchen is closing on 520 cals. Already looking forward to tomorrow's breakfast bagel!! Grin

Borris · 02/02/2019 21:23

Well done Harriet
Glad you had a nice meal 43. I thought you’d gone all street on us at “da pub”Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2019 21:36

Well done, Harrie

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/02/2019 22:14

Ha ha borris I'm am v v v street me said no old wrinkly 45yr old ever

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/02/2019 22:15

Well done Harriet Smile

Cantchooseaname · 02/02/2019 22:39

Hello, new here. Very determined to make some positive changes before I hit that horrible age later this year.
Have been quite enjoying the FD- like the sense of control, but won’t let it get stupid.
However, was really ill on last FD, don’t know if I just did it all wrong.
It was totm, and particularly awful this month. Accompanied by migraine, that usual drug combo didn’t touch.
Could lack of food effect efficiency of pain killers? Migraine was awful, got really shaky and faint. Some black tea with 1 sugar and half muffin, felt bit better. Just not sure. Water consumption was not great.
Will try again this week, but home alone with toddler means not keen to feel quite so ill again.

stegosauruslady · 02/02/2019 23:04

DP (who has horrendous eating habits, but somehow manages not to be the size of a house!) is back at work on Monday so I am looking forward to a week of concentrating on eating better. He has done all of the cooking since the baby one was born, which has been so good, but not so healthy!

I'm going to give one FD a go this week, probably Tuesday. Send strength as I tackle my first week with four DC, the school run (which entails a 6.30am wake up!) and a newborn who like to spend his days alternating breastfeeding and throwing up continuously!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2019 13:51

Welcome, cantchoose 🙂
An empty tum should if anything increase the effect of painkillers and other drugs

If you have migraines often, then I recommend you start with 800 cal FDs and have 3 very small meals

If you have a low TDEE, you might progress better with 3 weekly miniFDs instead of clssic 5:2
i.e. sub-1000 cals on Mon+Wed+fri
Once adapted to fasting, which usually takes 2-3 weeks, you could then try the 500 FDs again

To avoid ordinary headaches - may not work for migraines - while your body adapts to fasting, glug a level teasp Marmite (it's only 10 cals) mid-morning and mid-afternoon.
Even if you hate Marmite, glug it down like medicine
It replenishes salt & minerals that may be low on FDs - until your body adapts - and this is what causes the headaches.

Keep drinking water too

Avoid sugar, muffins and other junky food on FDs,
but if you might need something quickly, keep emergency supplies of a boiled egg and / or raw carrot / cucumber / celery to munch

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2019 13:53

Stego That sounds tough
but see how you go on 6:1 with 1000 cals, as you're BF

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 03/02/2019 21:43

Evening all

43 the cake looks fab, my youngest is a minecrafter too and would love it! It sounds like you were reasonably restrained on the birthday meal so I wouldn't worry too much, it could easily be worse!!

Mozz, hope you enjoyed your dominos but not too much. That used to be my weakness of choice... tired / stressed / emotional/ CBA.... I'd just order one. Needless to say I ate it far too much! Fidnt even particularly enjoy it either in the end..big choc is right - i now keep a supermarket thin and crispy one in the freezer for if needed. Probably 1000 less calories so I don't need to feel too guilty either.

My main success story at the moment is planning ahead better, I'm meal planning and food shopping online, and buying extra milk too (so far less reasons to pop to the corner shop)... we've been eating so much better as a family because of it and I'm not getting to those 'It's late, CBA to cook 'moments, as I'm eating earlier... the slow cooker is my friend! This week I've had sausage casserole, lamb shanks, roast chicken, chilli, and jacket potatoes. Loads of veg every day... and less adventurous daughter has learned she likes another new meal.

DS is off school tomorrow, D&V bug doing the rounds at school and it's hit him, think I'm going to move my Monday FD to Tuesday to make that easier.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2019 22:01

That's a planning & healthy meals NSV, MrD

You are setting up good longterm habits that benefit the DC too

I hope you all escape the D&V bug - so many going around atm.

OP posts:
scruffybarnsley · 04/02/2019 07:04

Morning everyone,

Monday morning is here again! BrewBrew

I'm doing first day of B2B today. Had an ok weekend in general but Saturday was well over TDEE as I was at a family party so yesterday was a bit lighter to try and compensate a bit.

MrDarcy - I completely agree about being organised and meal planning stopping poor eating habits. When we've had a busy weekend and not been able to get to the supermarket I notice it immediately in the sorts of meal choices that we make (i.e. poor ones!). I'm so much better now at making sure I plan the week's meals and actively look for ways to up the veg as we are all bad for that, as well as make use of leftovers as I hate wasted food. It generally works pretty well and definitely means healthier eating habits. Not to mention much cheaper food bills. Dominoes is absolute daylight robbery.

Also love the slow cooker - need to get that back in regular usage.

Have a great day everyone!

flatpackbox · 04/02/2019 07:09

Morning all, I am back today after a weekend off, not too bad at the weekend and I think I am eating less on NFD.

For instance yesterday I had two pieces of grilled back bacon with a poached egg and some tomatoes, out for lunch where I had cauliflower and chickpea curry with a chapati. Then nothing else until I had an apple later on.

I made two lots of soup for the evening, Puy lentil and parma ham and minestrone, but I wasn't hungry so didn't eat any.

Anyway, I am going to try for MWF and anything extra is a bonus.

Iamblossom · 04/02/2019 07:48

Morning all. Am a pound up this morning on last Monday which is a bit annoying. Was over tdee Friday and Saturday but had hoped I had pulled it back a bit yesterday but clearly not enough.

Not remotely in the right frame of mind for fasting after rowing with dickhead DH all weekend but I am saying to myself another gain won’t exactly cheer me up so will see how I get on.

Good luck all fasters.

(Cake looked epic!)

JcHcks · 04/02/2019 07:55

Morning everyone, fast day for me! Feeling good today. Good luck all other fasters!!

stegosauruslady · 04/02/2019 08:15

MrD I'm trying to get back on the meal planning band wagon, I'm also trying to cook ahead a bit more (tea time is so crazy here with 4 DC and DP coming home at a funny time of the evening!). Last time I was fasting I did enjoy having to prep less food for myself though!

I'm aiming to have my eating window be from 2-8 today, but I'll be happy if I make it to noon. Later eating works well for me as it means I can eat dinner with DP and I like going to bed full! When I have a FD tomorrow I'll be doing it as one meal for that reason too!

I have also charged my running watch to keep track of my step count for the day. I'll be up for running again soon, but not today!

Hope everyone who is fasting today has a nice easy day!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/02/2019 08:27

Morning all 🙂
Good luck to the Monday fasters
I'm joining you

Blossom Don't let the dickhead annoy you so much that you go of track
or you'll be even crosser with him 😏

Hooray, the sun is out after several days of gloom and the snow is almost gone 🙂
I'm off to the gym for a strength & flexibility class
and it looks safe to have my first Rhine walk for ages
Sun and water always make me happy

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 04/02/2019 09:38

Morning all! Good luck @scruffy @bigchoc and @jc - I'm doing a mini because I'm a bit hungover...!! Then FD tomorrow and Thurs...

Really annoyingly have had to cancel my PT because the carpet fitter is coming (having been snowed off last week). Will try and squeeze and session in later in the week or at the weekend. Can't find my fitbit charger after the move so it's run out of charge!!

OohMrDarcy · 04/02/2019 09:48

Blossom don't let dickhead DH throw you off track - it will only make you more annoyed - I speak from experience with ExH Wink

BigChoc - my fingers are crossed that DD and I escape too! Lots of cleaning and washing of clothes going on!

Scruffy the slow cooker is in almost constant use over the autumn / winter / spring for me.... summer I struggle more with meals / veg - I'm not one for variety of salad , and don't like things like peppers - but I'm working on it!

Good luck to all the Monday fasters!

Borris · 04/02/2019 13:43

Signing in for b2b today and tomorrow. So far so good but need to do a supermarket trip before dinner. I’m thinking I’ll just dash in and get a ready meal so I’m not tempted!

Good luck other fasters

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