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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 31/01/2019 09:19

It's good that it doesn't dishearten you scruffy, I usually avoid scakes during totm. Well done on the no alcohol in the week nsv, I still aspire to that Smile

mickey just chalk it up as a mini and move on, nuts are so moorish it's hard to stop when you've had a taste Confused

Roger that bcf Grin will get ds to taste test! Although I am more worried about licking the buttercream off my fingers, maybe ddog can assist Smile

So cold here that I'm having a skinny sugar free vanilla latte to warm me up before I hit the shops.... then chicken salad or soup for lunch and dinner. Good luck fellow fasters Smile

harriethoyle · 31/01/2019 09:22

Oooh a SV this morning of 2.5kg off since last week, bringing me to 5kg off since I got back from hols! Only 1kg to go til I'm at pre-christmas weight which is ACE. Definitely fasting on Saturday now!

harriethoyle · 31/01/2019 09:24

@mickey that's still only about 1500 cals over 2 days, way less than you would have had pre-5-2. So it's really not a disaster!

OohMrDarcy · 31/01/2019 09:27

Morning all

Checking in for Thursday FD here - -6 on the school run and fricking freezing! Felt guilty so sent the eldest off with a hot chocolate to keep her warm!

Am currently checking cals to see if I have enough for left over chilli for my FD meal - if not I'll have soup for lunch and some chicken and veggies for dinner.

BigChoc - jealous of your deep snow, it is my main memory of living in northern Germany as a kid! I now live in the south of England so rarely get any at all, and if we do its normally an inch!

Mickey - don't worry about the peanuts - like you say, you migrated to a mini, its all good. Forget and move on.

Flatpack - cauli rice is never something that I could imagine liking so I'm not even going there! Hope you're leg is healing

Scruffy - ace alchohol NSV!

43 - good luck baking cake on a FD!

well done to all yesterdays fasters

maz - that korma sounds delicious!

Blossom - implant buddy! Its amazing isn't it! not had more than I think 2/3 periods in about 9 years now, bloody love it!

welcome Steph and Mozz

OohMrDarcy · 31/01/2019 09:33

Chilli coming in around 350 so I'll have that for lunch (no rice) and then a soup for dinner... yum!

Harriet - congrats on the SV

43 - they are around 100 cals still if I remember right, so just a heads up to bear that in mind - delicious mind and perfect for warming you!

scottiesheep · 31/01/2019 09:39

Thanks BCF - I just wondered if one could use BMR to boost weight loss. I m keen for him to see results so that he gets motivated!

MazDazzle · 31/01/2019 10:07

Here is the recipe harrie, on The Organised Mum’s blog. I started and finished mine on the hob. Started with the 400 ml of water as recommended in the recipe, but ended up doubling that. I just went with what I had in my cupboards, so used fresh garlic and ginger instead of jarred and missed out the nigella and cardamon seeds.

Stircrazyschoolmum · 31/01/2019 10:13

Hey all

Just popping in to say hello on this beautiful frosty morning! I've not been about much recently - the thread got too busy for me to keep up with!

Anyhow, third week of 'maintaining' for me. I'm hoovering just under 60kg which gives me a BMI of 21ish and feels manageable without much effort or exercise. (Bloody cold most though!!)

Our gym just got a new bodyscan machine so I though I would give it a go last week.. it told me I have the metabolic rate of 26 years old! (I'm nearly 42 - the machine is my new best friend!) It also said I have 3% viseral (organ) fat which I'm really pleased with. Can't wait to stop hiding under big woolly jumpers and show off my new silhouette.. although DH is freaking out about how much money I'm spending on new clothes!

Anyhow - thought I would share as this method really, really works. You just have to stick at it and remember 'you can have it tomorrow'!!

Good luck to anyone fasting today, and hello to both old timers and newbies! xx

Stircrazyschoolmum · 31/01/2019 10:14

I should've written hovering, not hoovering... that would be something entirely different! Grin

MazDazzle · 31/01/2019 10:17

It’s 2400 cals for the whole pot and I got 12 ladles out of it.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 31/01/2019 10:21

Morning all!

Scottie, I would stick to his TDEE because if he's overweight he'll be accustomed to over-eating and so even eating to TDEE will feel like a restriction. And I suspect that his first few fast days will be hard-going (most people's are!). You don't want to scunner him completely - he needs to feel that it's sustainable and not all misery.

MrDarcy, your chilli sounds lovely! And so does maz's korma. Do you put coconut milk in that, maz?

Congratulations on your SV, harriet!

Good luck today, 43 and flatpack and anyone else fasting!

I'm fasting today too and feel much more on it than I did on Tues. I am going back to the no-lunch thing because it is too hard to fit in meals if I have two of them. I had an amazing time at trampoline yesterday, and although I went a little bit over TDEE, I know I did a lot of exercise so it doesn't matter so much.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 31/01/2019 10:22

Wow, Stir, that is amazing! Well done you!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 11:01

Scottie As he's BMI 40 and male, he should lose quite a lot for the first few weeks at least, without going hardcore.
Trust me on this (unless he binges massively)

It's better to aim for something he can sustain for 2 weeks and going under TDEE could make him find it too hard.
I strongly recommend you avoid BMR and plan for him to eat up to sedentary TDEE each NFD

If he can do the 5:2 daily low carb, rather than ordinary 5:2, he'll see results even more quickly
Howeve, don't sweat it if you think that's too tough to try.

If you want to boost his results, concentrate instead on:
no alcohol, no sugar, no snacking between meals except raw veg without dip
and drink 2 litres water daily - makes a difference !

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 31/01/2019 11:06

@Maz that looks GREAT. Going to make it next week I think or maybe batch cook one weekend. Looks like you could glam it up for normal eating with rice or naan and just have a ladle for fast days!!

harriethoyle · 31/01/2019 11:06

Good luck @fortythree and @flapjack the cold definitely makes it harder imo!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 11:10

43 No buttercream for you on FDs - lucky DDog !

Your trampolining always sounds such fun, cheddar
Super for building bone strength and cardio fitness too

Well done on your SV, harrie
5kg is excellent for the month

MrD Their young metabolism & energy keeps them warm in this weather
Keep yourself warm with hot Bovril or espresso - as chauffeur, you have earned it.

Your FD menu sounds warm & filling

Fab SV and great bodyfat NSV, stir
You will have really improved your fitness & health

Are you on maintenance now - I recommend a definite maintenance WOL, as otherwise many folk slip back into old habits

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 11:15

Scottie Do let him have the 800 FDs too
It'll be much easier and a bloke at BMI 40 will have a high TDEE, so he'll still get a huge FD deficit - much more than most women here on 500 FDs

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 31/01/2019 11:25

stircrazy - loving the bodyscan machine being your best friend. I'd love a go on one of those - though suspect the first time it might be my worst enemy Grin but seing the progress in the numbers would be lovely!

BigChoc, I'm keeping warm at the moment (handy a couple more hoodies have started fitting me again!) but will bear in mind if needed!

scottiesheep · 31/01/2019 12:01

Fab thanks very much for the advice as always!

MazDazzle · 31/01/2019 12:34

Yes, there’s a tin of coconut milk in it Cheddar.

Well done StirCrazy on the body scan results. I’d love a go on one of those machines!

stegosauruslady · 31/01/2019 13:00

Hello! I lost five stone doing 5:2 a few years ago and now that my newest baby is a few weeks old I thought I'd pop on here while I lose the last bit of baby weight and a wee bit extra! I want to lose a stone and a half and I'd like it gone by the summer, but I have an initial goal of half a stone by my birthday at the end of March.

I'll be doing IF, which usually ends up at around 18:6 for me and I'll be eating quite a lot as I'm breastfeeding!

OohMrDarcy · 31/01/2019 13:06

Welcome back Steg

Boysmomma · 31/01/2019 13:09

Afternoon all! I have had a terrible week food wise and just general life!!

DS1 had a hospital dash Friday morning followed by a weeks worth of antibiotics and bed rest (ongoing) not to be out done, DS2 decided hand foot and mouth and tummy bug was the way to go. So needless to say I've had to sick babas hanging off me and of course that led to snacking and binging once the prepped food ran out on Monday.

Throw into the mix that STBEX refuses to have the kids when they're sick I'm barely getting 5 mins to myself. Hoping to reset today/tomorrow. I'm doing my FD, if nothing else to just feel better!

Hope everyone's day is going well!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 15:19

Welcome back, stego and congratulations on your lo 💐
When you feel ready in a few weeks maybe to do FDs, you should have 1000 cals, as you are BF

Fleece hoodies are a winter FD standby, MrD

I hope the DC are soon well again, boys
Clear why he's a STBX, useless waste of space when his own wee ones need him

Try to support your own bod with plenty of nutritious food and bin the junk, as everyone depends on you staying healthy.
Remember to drink lots of water

Maz If you ask at your gym, even if they don't have a BodiTrax or similar machine yet, the customer interest might make them invest

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 31/01/2019 16:30

This has turned into a really whingey post so I’m sorry, don’t read if you’re having a low point!

I’m fasting today but I’m really struggling. It’s freezing here and I’m knackered (two young children who are fucking terrible at sleeping). I think I’m just a bit too exhausted and drained at the moment to do it properly. Also, despite having followed 5:2 for four weeks now, I haven’t actually lost any weight. I know that’s not right, I know it’s a combination of TOTM-ness, which for me lasts ages, plus water weight or whatever and I know there will likely be a whoosh soon - but I don’t really care because it’s very disheartening, especially when I’m feeling a bit low.

So I think I might pack it in for this week, start again on Monday (February! January is finally over!) and give it some proper attention then.

Best of luck to everyone else 👍