Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
slinkyme · 30/01/2019 11:32

Finished FD today. Felt more energised and not as hungry although still didn't plan the meals as well as I could.

Lost 0.3kg so a small loss but a loss never the less. NFD today and planning on eating lots of warm food.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 30/01/2019 12:11

Hello all! I went off-piste last week - stressed out, had a nasty cold and caved on FDs. I have calmed down a bit and feel ready to restart. Fasted yesterday but came in at more like 700 because DH added bacon to the Caesar salad, grr! I am trying to stick carefully to TDEE today and will aim for a better FD tomorrow.

Hope all today's fasters are doing well in this cold weather!

scottiesheep · 30/01/2019 13:40

Thanks very much BCF

Should he eat to TDEE or BMR on NFD's?

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 13:44

Sorry to hear of you accident, flatpack
I hope your leg is better soon 💐
Yes, in icy weather, walking shoes with good grip are important

Well done on your loose clothes NSV, JC
That's lost bodyfat

Mozz I'd just go slightly over the 500 cals.
An extra 20 cals is totally unimportant, especially if it stops you being deprived
Alternatively cut down slightly on the turkey & prawns - fitting in 3 minimeals does mean compromises

Well done on your FD and SV, slinky

Don't worry, cheddar
You're focused now on the NFDs and FDs

Well done on your b2b, scruffy
Mosely is explaining in that article that when you are on daily low carb - not just for FDs - then you have 800 cal FD instead of 500 on ordinary food.

OP posts:
Stepha85 · 30/01/2019 15:55

Hello everyone, I am new to 5:2 (new 800 Fast) and new to Mumsnet - would you mind if I joined you?

I am planning to start the 800Kcal introduction week(s) at some point next week. I am hoping to spend some time doing some batch cooking over the weekend to get some easy low cal dinners in there as I am at my worst when I am not prepared!

So my question is - are there any particular meals that you have found freeze well? I was thinking veg bolognase, meatballs etc?

Steph

harriethoyle · 30/01/2019 17:24

@mickey how are you getting on, fellow b2ber? And welcome @Stepha I find spaghetti sauces, chilli, curries all freeze well. Good luck!

MozzchopsThirty · 30/01/2019 17:33

2nd FD has been so hard, much harder than the first
I find all I can do is think about food
I'm not starving but I feel like eating
And I'm sooooo tired
Supposed to do a body combat class tonight but just don't think I can
It's so cold I just want to go to bed

I've come in at just over 600 today which is ok I guess

MozzchopsThirty · 30/01/2019 17:34

Hi @Stepha85 I'm new here too, only started 5:2 this week

I made a lot of soups for my FD, about 15 in the freezer now 🤣

Cheeeeislifenow · 30/01/2019 18:52

Has anyone got any good tips for a FD on TOTM? Which is me tomorrow.
First time for me.

Iamblossom · 30/01/2019 19:55

Evening all.

bcf as your very effective spy drone will no doubt have already informed you I have not exercised since my chiropractor appointment. But as you are far away I am going to defiantly admit that is more accident than design, have been up and down the m4 basically since then with work so have not had time. Same again tomorrow. May swim on Friday. [ducks]. I get really antsy when I haven’t exercised. Haven’t even walked dogs they have been with the minder ...

Have been at 1600 or under since FD on Monday (I only do one a week) so as long as I am more restrained than last weekend (which shouldn’t be that hard!!!) am hoping to see a loss on Monday.

Iamblossom · 30/01/2019 19:56

Sorry cheese happily i don’t have periods. Am on the implant and before that the depo injection so haven’t had one for years and years [happy dance]

harriethoyle · 30/01/2019 20:09

@cheeee soup is great because it's so filling. I would also bulk up on veg because then you can eat loads. So maybe a vegetable curry?

Iamblossom · 30/01/2019 20:17

Just had a delicious Mexican three bean chilli soup for tea, Tesco’s, 250 cals for whole 600g pot.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 20:50

Welcome, Stepha 🙂
Good luck next week - tell us how you are getting on

Well done on your 2nd FD, Mozz
It's often harder than the 1st, as your body is being forced to burn fat reserves
That can make you tired until you adapt, so plan an early night on FDs until then
Hot Bovril (10 cals) helps keep you warm and as it is not sweet, doesn't raise hunger

blossom 🛰 Yup, I set railgun back to safe

cheee On totm FDs, I recommend having beans / lentils / peas instead of starchy carbs, to help stabilise blood sugar at this time
Wirh masses of different veg
plus lots of water, of course

As above, hot Bovril helps here too.

Main thing is to be aware that the hormonal changes can bring the desire for sweet fatty junk food
So resist that - on NFDs too - and the totm bloat will go the FD after totm ends

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2019 20:51

and avoid the scales during totm - they are meaningless and can demotivate

OP posts:
Cheeeeislifenow · 30/01/2019 22:06

Thanks for the advice. Yes it's a massive craving thing for me, I am desperate for toast real butter and jam, but I won't do it I know I will feel worse.
I get very bad periods and all I want to do is treat myself. I'm going to really up the water tomorrow hopefully it will help the bloating.
Thankfully I'll be busy tomorrow as well so that's a help.
Bleurgh I feel rubbish.

MazDazzle · 30/01/2019 22:35

I’ve been a meal planning machine this week. Bubbling away in the slow cooker is tomorrow’s dinner: potato, lentil and spinach Korma. It smells delicious and is only 200 cals per generous ladle. I’m thinking that I won’t need naan bread or rice as it’s quite stodgy already. Maybe a poppadum and a blob of yogurt.

I’m going to have an early night and dream of Korma...

harriethoyle · 30/01/2019 22:42

Yum @mazdazzle - have you got the recipe?

Kitchen closed on 719 for the second of my b2b days. Considering a Saturday fast day too...

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 31/01/2019 06:30

Morning everyone and welcome steph
cheee hope you manage okay today, totm is hard enough without a fd, but keep busy and lots of hots fruit teas will help.

Welcome back cheddar
Well done on your sv slinky
Hope your leg is better flat
Mmm that sounds delicious maz enjoy Smile

I literally did not stop yesterday, got such a busy week / weekend and to add to it all a poorly dh.... Hmm today will be the same in terms of non stop ... so fd2 for me today, I have to make a chocolate cake for ds birthday later, wish me luck!!

scottiesheep · 31/01/2019 06:54

BCF sorry to ask you again but should DH eat to TDEE or BMR on FD?

scruffybarnsley · 31/01/2019 07:25

Morning all,

NFD for me too and TOTM - I can definitely vouch for the scales going up at this time (up 2lbs! - not worried, but interesting from a curiosity PoV!). Feel bleurggh though and quite wiped out. Not fancying deicing my car or the cold weather either. Grumpy Thursday!

Going to try and keep fairly light today and I get the same carby cravings as Cheee and could quite easily do many slices of toast in 10min and undo a lot of the week's good work. Still managing to be off the alcohol in the week which is massively helping as most of my weight gain was alcohol really.

Stay strong Thursday fasters (making a cake, 43!!!) and hope everyone has a great day!

flatpackbox · 31/01/2019 07:44

Thanks for the good wishes, my leg hurts but I don’t think it hurts as much as it did yesterday.

I failed yesterday and ate an egg mayonnaise sandwich at lunchtime. Still ok calorie wise for the day but not low carb - shame! I was starving and my Thai veg curry with cauliflower rice was disgusting, I threw it away and caved and bought a sandwich.

Still walked three miles, my leg is better when I get going but I feel about 80 every time I get out of my chair (my job involves sitting down all day).

I am aiming for two more FD in a row today and tomorrow as I am going out for lunch on Saturday and I don’t know what my options will be.

Good look to everyone especially the cake makers!!

mickeymacca · 31/01/2019 08:59

Hi Harriet it didn’t go well yesterday for me 😳 I did well all day but then started picking at some peanuts while cooking dinner ... I ended up closer to 1000 so I’m calling it a mini and I’m going to do a FD Sunday. How’d you get on?

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 09:12

Morning all
Good luck Thursday fasters !

Deep snow here ☃️ still snowing ❄️

43 On an FD, let your DS do any necessary tasting for hid birthday cake
You can enjoy it tomorrow
I hope poorly Mr43 is better soon

maz Sounds a healthy delicious Korma
I recommend the yoghurt, to boost protein, instead of a poppadom, especially as you already have potato in the Karma
with maybe a side of carrots or tomato

flatpack Some folk love cauliflower rice or low cal noodles - I hate them !
Instead, I recommend beans / lentils / peas
and boosting butternut squash - I find that a satisfying substitute for potato

scruffy Great weekday alcohol NSV.
Some folk find vutting back booze makes a major difference to weight loss and to how they feel
Work on making that a lifelonghealthy habit, not just for the weight loss phase.

Best to avoid toast on totm NFDs - too easy to have several slices with butter
How about porridge, fruit, almonds & cinammon for breakfast

Scottie NFDs are "maintenance days", not "diet days"
so guideline for those who like the security of mfp is to average around TDEE

Noone should use BMR on 5:2

Use Mosely's TDEE Calc
He recommends that exercisers calculate with one activity lvel lower than they think

Don't eat back calories on FDs or NFDs via gadgets, or he'll be eating back twice

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2019 09:18

mickey tips:

  • As soon as you finish eating supper - especially on FDs - you drink a glass of water then clean your teeth, then 20 secs minty mouthwash
    That removes the tempation to nibble, especially when preparing food

  • When you eat nuts, never eat from the packet; nuts are so moreish - and so calorie dense
    Instead, measure out and weigh a portion - not more than 30g - and put the packet away

  • Also for nuts especially, don't nibble them while doing a chore, especially food prep.
    Instead, get a glass of water, sit down and savour them; finish the glass of water

OP posts: