5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

thanks mrd

That's frustrating iam but would imagine you will see some movement after FD2?

NFD today and I'm meant to be meeting friends for lunch at Chinese restaurant, looks like a standard 2 course lunch menu where you choose protein and add sauce, so I'll probably have chicken or prawns but anyone have any idea what sauces are best to have??

Hello everyone, I am feeling up for FD 2 although I was hungry this morning so opted for a small bowl of porridge with half a chopped apple and cinnamon.

Plan is soup for lunch and maybe a stir fry for dinner. I use a book called Every Grain of Rice for authentic Chinese food and am sure I can find something appropriate in there that doesn’t make it feel like I am missing out ..... the family menu at home tonight is toad in the hole.

One of the biggest things to get my head round is that I can’t eat the same as everyone else but I am sure it will be worth it when I lose weight!

Flatpack - Now that I've been doing it a while I tend to have the same as the rest of the family with slight adaptions - eg smaller portion of what they're having but have mine with lots of veg/salad where they'd have pasta or rice etc. Or less sauce on something usually saucy etc.

When I started though I was very strict and basically had the same ready meal with the same salad for about 6 months. I was worried about derailing myself! So I completely get why you want to keep control for now - just wanted to say there might be light at the end of the tunnel after a while

Saying that - even with adaptations toad in the hole might be tricky!!! (bloody love it though!)

Maybe veggie sausages and veg?!

Well done, Borris That was a good FD

43 You've just reminded me how Vesta meals became a thing when I started uni in the mid-70s

How the soya meat substitute - unconvincing grey flakes - would squeak against the teeth and feel very odd going down.
Showing students will eat anything when poor & hungry enough
In those days, the staff could expect much better food quality though !

Well done on your SV, scruffy
Sounds like you have your fasting system tuned to fit your lifestyle

Blossom Your FD was a win, because it burned the bodyfat from that indulgent weekend and stopped a gain
FD2 should start to resume progress,
but don't feel down if it's also hauling back the WE - you may have under-estimated that !

flatpack For those doing BSD for a couple of weeks, the daily low carb makes it more complicated eating with the family

However, on ordinary 5:2, noone usually notices if you adapt your version of the family meals on a couple of night per week.
It basically means cutting out the starchy carbs and oily / creamy sauces, while piling extra veg to fill your plate

e.g roast:
You have plenty of meat - cut off all fat on your plate - and do extra portions of different veg so your plate is piled with different colours.
Add horseradish / mint sauce instead of gravy.

Your family have also the roast spuds, mash, yorkies, gravy - and maybe they even try an extra veg just because it's there.

ooh bcf you were really spoiled eh sounds delicious

Checking in for FD today. Am back to my weight post last weeks first FD so a good base to start with. Feeling quite bloated though as TOM coming up later this week.

Been on tea and coffee so far.

May have a yoghurt or a small porridge made with water for lunch and then a big pile of roast veggies and my mushroom stroganoff made with quark.

Snow predicted too later today so will see how it all looks tomorrow.

Yes exactly BCF I completely agree. If I had not fasted yesterday I would deffo have seen a gain and probably be back where I started!!!

Well done on your SV, slinky
best to skip next week's weigh-in though, if totm is appearing

Hi gang,

checking in for FD1 of the week - I'm going to do b2b and then see if I can manage FD3 on Sat. It's my 40th in 5 weeks and I want to look FAB at my party!

House move chaos continues but weirdly has made eating at home much easier - I have filled the freezer box of the fridge with low fat ready meals and am having them most days rather than cooking properly. I still haven't found half my kitchen stuff in the boxes!! Judging by the 3 inches of snow we've had this afternoon they might prove to be quite the investment...!

@flatpack @fortythree @mozzchops @Iam @maz @Ooh excellent Monday fasts!!

Also @fortythree that buffet sounds incredible. Love a bit of beige!!

Hi gang, FD 1 of the week here .
Going very well had a cup of soup at lunch, lemon water this morning, and a cup of tea or two.
Dinner is going to be a really nutritous ten plus veg soup with lentils. I have made home made bread too, technically not allowed on my FD but, I feel a cold coming on.
Not hungry at all today,I have just been very busy all day.
I always have. The same as rest of family ,but will (normally) skip the carbs only because I feel bad after eating them.
I always add loads of extra veg on my plate and as a result, kids are definitely eating more veg.

barnsley, I live in the Yorkshire Dales with lots of fantastic butchers rearing their own and making award winning 98% meat sausages.... vegetarian sausages are not going to happen for me.

However, I will deprive myself for the sake of my weight, salmon with stir fried veg.

Helpfully I will be at yoga when the toad in the hole is consumed.

Evening all

A healthyish NFD here - not as much veg as I'd like but reasonably under TDEE, so not too worried as a one off - as long as it doesn't start off the slower digestion again!

Next FD is Thursday for me, and I'm making chilli tomorrow for the kids and I

On the talk of veg, my kids are definitely eating more too - eldest has always been great with veg so she's easy, but the youngest is a bit of a natural carnivore so it took some work getting him eating more but he is fab now, just little things like my tastes changing through fasting has made me try more things - and he's naturally adventurous so its been great for him! I would say they both have a good healthy diet, daughter is almost too slim at the moment but is growing like a bean pole and eating larger portions than me occasionally so I suspect that is why

Well done to the Tuesday Fasting gang, looks like you've rocked it

Cheese - that soup sounds highly nutritious, well done

BigChoc - I'll bear the flannel in mind, she loves long walks when she's up and awake so sure it will be fun as long as I can actually wake her!

We already eat tons of fruit and veg, I spend upwards of £40 a week on it for three people.

My weight gain was as a result of taking steroids for the last few years, I expected it to drop off when I stopped but it didn’t so I need to give it a huge kick to get rid of it!

I feel really peeved that I have to diet to be honest 😂, I eat healthily but my fifty year old body needs some help. It is almost like the wiring is dodgy after all the drugs I took.

I don’t eat sweets or biscuit, fizzy drinks or crisps, no fried food, alcohol once a month if that. My portions are smaller than my 12 year old.

There is very little I can give up apart from carbs! So carbs it is!

I am hoping that 800 Cals of low carb a day for a few weeks resets something together with more walking.

@flatpack I'm in Yorkshire too! West Yorkshire

Kitchen is closing at 602 cals. B2b tomorrow. Happy with that!!

Hi all 🙌

I used to post as purpleviolet but I'm currently pregnant. I have re-joined the thread as my DH who is diabetic and obese (BMI of 40) has agreed to give 5:2 a try for 2 weeks (his consultant has encouraged 5:2). He is keen to lose weight but struggles with the organisation and portion control. He has therefore asked me to help him meal plan / eat healthy and pour his food in so he knows how much he can eat.

He wants to start on Monday so on Sunday night we will take measurements - hips, waist and weight. He isn't so good on drinking water but will try. He does love tea so it's good he can enjoy unlimited amounts on NFD's.

With my pregnancy (and a toddler to lookafter with his own dietary requirements - allergies) I am hoping I can cook normally on NFD's (ie for both of us) and limit his portions (try to reduce junk though).

For FD's I was thinking he could have chops and salad, fish with veg, chicken stir fry for his dinners. Boiled egg for breakfast?? What options are fulfilling? I have no doubt he will really struggle initially at least anyway.

Any other tips? Oh he's asked for carrots so he can chew on those if he is really struggling..

Should he eat to BMR or TDEE given he has such a large amount to lose? I think if he sees results quickly in the 2 weeks he will be keen / motivated to carry on.

well done all the fasters today. Harriet I've fasted today and doing a B2B tomorrow hope yours goes well. I had a yummy dinner of wholegrain rice roasted veg and a birdseye cod portion on top. Surprisingly tasty for a freezer/cupboard meal. Finished the day on 619.

I hope your cold goes soon, cheee

flatpack I'd eat the real thing myself too, just less of it, rather than fake veggy substitutes that leave me unsatisfied.
That's rotten luck when steroids cause weight gain - they're notorious for it.

Also, I expect that meno and hormonal changes have made a significant difference
I don't know anyone my age who can eat like they could before that
meno can cut TDEE by 100s of cals, even if exercise remains the same

MrD That's brilliant if your healthy 5:2 veggy habits are encouraging your DC to eat more veg

Congratulations, scottie 💐
I remember when you were purple

OK, for MrScottie:

Drinks
Do get your DH to aim for at least 2 litres water per day. Start the day with a glass and keep drinking throughout
Cut out fruit juice

exercise
Try for at least 20 mins daily walk together, more if he is capable

On FDs
Hot drinks: count any milk calories - try almond milk, as much lower cal
Train him off sugar if you can

Have 2-3 low carb small meals for 800 calories, since he is diabetic

Egg with veg is great for breakfast: boiled / scrambled / omelette
Greek yoghurt unsweetened with berries, flaked almonds & cinammon is a sweet choice

Main Meal:
I'd avoid chops, as the fat means they take up too many calories
Fish is super, as are salads - preferably dress with lemon or balsamic
Your other meals are fine too
Main advice is masses of different veg on the plate, to keep him feeling fuller

If he needs to nibble, prepare raw veg in advance - NO dips or sauce:
carrot, celery, cucumber are low cal & quite filling

FD Recipes (from OP): BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian , Foodie Under 200 Cals

If your DH is T1
Just have normal types of food on NFDs with 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

• NHS alcohol limits,
• NEVER snack / graze between meals
• have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
• lots of water & veg
• cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones

If your DH is T2
the 5:2 BSD version would help his condition the most - and lose the most weight - as the BSD was designed for those suffering from T2
This is daily low carb but with 2 x 800 cal FDs

He can have masses of non-starchy veg, fish, meat, eggs, cheese, nuts, seeds, unsweetened yoghurt
and try to have peas / beans / lentils most days as these help stabilise blood sugar
1-2 portions fruit per day only

Even on NFDs, cut out all starchy carbs like bread, potato, pasta, rice, cereal
AND
cut out sugar in his tea, cake, biscuits, sweets etc
AND
cut out alcohol, fruit juice

Thanks “bigchoc”. I am up for another day. I rarely snack so the change for me really does seem to be no carbs. I am not feeling hungry at all (apart from yesterday morning when I woke up but I am fine today).

I managed to walk four miles again yesterday and I went to one of my yoga classes but I slipped on ice and have done something to my left leg, so my brogues will be in my bag today and I will wear my walking boots for walking in.

Best of luck Wednesday fasters.

Morning all,

NFD for me today and have my meals planned out. Woke up starving yesterday on my B2B but not hungry at all yet so that's good.

Just read an article from yesterday on M.Mosley and the Fast800 and thought I'd share the link in case anyone else fancies a read - https://inews.co.uk/news/health/michael-mosley-diet-fast-800-diabetes-weight-loss-book

Can anyone tell me why this meagre offering today is bringing me in over 500 calories

Looks like I can't even have yoghurt 🙁

Morning all just checking in. NFD for me today and FD tomorrow. Feel like I've been doing really well this week so looking forward to weigh day Friday. Sometimes I feel like my clothes are looser and then sometimes I don't so can't really tell how well I'm doing lol