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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
quackingduck222 · 18/12/2018 08:02

Bug - Good to see you back. That’s such a tiny gain you must have been very restrained. How did yesterday go?

Fleabag- Good luck for you 2 FDs this week. As a serial Yo-yo dieter I personally think it goes on different but also comes off differently.

43 - Also hope your FD went well, are you feeling better now after the weekend?

Cheddar - How was your bodypump class?

Harriet- Hope your FD went well.

43 - I think it’s how you feel in yourself, I would say set yourself a goal and see what you think when you get to it.

Kapoww- Hope your FD went well.

AllTalk - Well done on your FD, yes the results are excellent on this inch wise.

Borris - No you haven’t ruined anything, just remember even if you have a bit of a gain a good poop and a FD under your belt will see you right again. I did the same as you last year FD the day before and saved cals for my evening meal but got so horribly drunk I didn’t male the meal. It really seems to lower your alcohol tolerance. Hope your feeling better now.

Maz - It’s so good to see you back, and such a small gain is amazing. I hope you have a great week.

I’m trying to pull it back this week, so after dinner dessert is out for the week. Picked up sewing again and love it as it keeps me busy in the evenings instead of me thinking about food.

Good luck to everyone fasting today

BigChocFrenzy · 18/12/2018 09:53

Your sewing is a brilliant hobby, duck
to keep hands busy, your mind absorbed & calm

Sounds a delic NFD menu, 43

OP posts:
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 18/12/2018 10:22

Yesterday's FD came in at 537. Scales are slightly up but tbh after last weekend I'm not surprised. Hopefully Wednesday's FD will put paid to the extra lb! Yesterday's bodypump class was ok, duck, thanks for asking - felt really hard after a lazy week off last week, but it didn't make me hungrier, so that's ok. I'm a bit sore this morning but it will wear off!

Oh, and for those who very kindly asked, I managed not to disgrace myself at the trampoline competition - came third out of three in my category, but I didn't crash and finished both routines on my feet - total improvement over training! Pleased with that.

43, that dinner sounds lush! Mmm.

Well done Mini, 43, alltalk, Bug, kappow and harriet!

Good luck all Tuesday fasters!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/12/2018 11:43

yay well done cheddar on the trampoline competition Smile and well done on your FD, I'm sure after weds FD you'll be back on the loosing track.

Just had broccoli and Stilton soup with sliced chicken but the broccoli bits were really woody so didn't finish it [grrrrrr]

enjoy the sewing duck its sounds very relaxing...

BigChocFrenzy · 18/12/2018 12:05

You nailed the trampolining really well, cheddar
It's like going in for a 5k race - the important things are to finish and to think you've done yourself justice.

well done on your FD yesterday and hopefully the next will zap the remains of last weekend

This weekend: remember to be moderate and not undo all your good work this week.

That's a shame about the broccoli, 43
Was it bought veg, or bought soup ?

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/12/2018 17:29

It was from lidl bcf I've had a couple of their soups and they've not been bad but this one was rank!

Fleabag123 · 18/12/2018 20:32

Argh: had such a crap day and just want to comfort eat! Car has broken down and need to get it fixed before Christmas (hooray, another expense) plus house purchase is going massively tits up. Trying to be strong, on a b2b today and have about 300 cal left but want to dive headfirst into a box of chocs Sad

MazDazzle · 18/12/2018 22:16

How’s it going flea? Did you manage to stay strong? Not long to go now and it’ll be time for bed. Hang in there!

Well done on the trampolining competition chedder.

Thanks for the welcome back! Someone told me I was looking slim today. That one FD must have really worked. Xmas Smile

Mini FD today coming in under 1000 AND I didn’t eat any chocolate or cheese! Though I must say, the thought of gratin potatoes is making me drool!

Been sticking with my workouts throughout my slacking. Haven’t been running since the end Oct. I am def. more of a summer runner! I took my daughter on a 5K mud run. It was 4 degrees and in sleet! Horrific. Still going to PT and the odd kettlebells class.

Fleabag123 · 18/12/2018 22:35

Thank you Maz and congratulations on your NSV and successful mini.

I managed to stay strong and just had porridge with frozen berries and honey to hit that sweet craving. Maybe not the best thing but better than hitting the chocs!

Bed now I reckon. Up early to call the breakdown service to see if they can get me to the garage.

Hope everyone else has had a good day

MazDazzle · 19/12/2018 00:13

All things considered, that’s not bad at all flea. Good luck with the car tomorrow!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/12/2018 07:11

Well done flea hope you get the car sorted and house purchase gets back on track

maz the wonders 1 fd can do Grin urge that run sounds horrific! !

Fd #2 today and I must resist all the Xmas goodies in the staff kitchen (and my drawer!) Skinny latte to get me through to lunch which will be a turkey salad from subway, not sure yet re: dinner.

Good luck fellow weds faster

quackingduck222 · 19/12/2018 07:57

BCF - Yes I think it will be good for me. The bonus will be if I can get my pattern right I can buy clothes in any shop and alter them to the correct fit. For basics I’m ok but anything a bit special is a nightmare nothing has waists anymore.

Cheddar - Well done for getting back to your class. Also what’s this about a trampoline comp? I think I must have missed a post but that sounds amazing.

43 - That’s disappointing about your food. I don’t know about relaxing, sweary yes definitely 😂

Fleabag - oh no that’s awful especially at this time of year. And sounds really stressful with house purchase. Hope your B2B ended up going well.

Maz - Well done on keeping going to your classes. Well done for your FD and mini.

43 - Good luck for your FD today and having to avoid all the goodies.

Has anyone been thinking about fasting over the Xmas period?

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/12/2018 08:34

ha ha, I think I'd find it a bit sweary too quacking but it would be amazing to be able to alter clothes so that they fit nicely...

I am hoping to have a FD on the 29th when I'll be mostly travelling all day, that's the plan anyway, how about you??

Fleabag123 · 19/12/2018 09:35

Thank you for letting me have a moan! Feeling better today, didn’t break the B2B calorie limit. Breakdown service are on the way, fingers crossed they can get me going or to the garage.

Quacking - I’m ok with making things from patterns (and getting to grips with alterations!) but haven’t attempted to alter shop bought things. Sewing is fun though isn’t it! I love it

Hoping to have at least one FD or mini over the Xmas period. I’m back to work on 27th so might fast in the day and save cals for dinner. Depends how many leftovers there are!

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2018 12:05

Oh, fleabag What a horrible combination of nasties to happen to you 💐
You did so well to stay focused and nail that FD, instead of comfort eating.

Also try to stay focused on healthy habits on the NFDs - I find vigorous exercise helps my mood, helps me calm down & focus
Walking outside is good for the "executive" function of the brain, if you don't fancy anything energetic.

Well done on your compliment NSV, Maz
and on all your exercise - that helps keep visceral fat (the unhealthiest kind, around organs) low

You maintained pretty well while absent and you are back in the fasting swing

duck I'll have an FD or so per week during the hols

  • essential, because I have 3.5 weeks staycation by the Rhine, 😂 surrounded by lovely cafes & restaurants !

Good plan, 43 and good luck on FD2 today

OP posts:
alltalknobaby · 19/12/2018 12:15

Flea Thanks

FD for me and I'm struggling a bit, just tea and water so far and I'm ravenous. Soup and a boiled egg for lunch then stir fry with chicken and lots of veggies for tea. Might have to bring that forward to 5pm as not sure I can last until 7.30 today.

Planning on attempting a mini over the Xmas period just for damage limitation.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/12/2018 13:00

Hang in there all I'm struggling too but so far have managed to resist all the xmas chocs being brought round keep saying that mantra "I can have it tomorrow" - I've got a 3 course meal tomorrow so I'm keeping myself going thinking about that!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2018 13:03

Stay focused, alltalk You can do this

Hot drinks, e.g. Bovril (10 cals) helps you feel fuller
or unsweetened tea / coffee / herbal tea - and without artifical sweeteners too

  • optionally a drizzle of unsweetened almond milk is ok, but avoid ordinary milk because the lactose can also spike insulin

Xmas damage limitation is always a good idea, less to lose in 2019 before you can resume progress

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2018 13:04

You can indeed have it tomorrow, 43
You are halfway already to nailing this FD2

OP posts:
alltalknobaby · 19/12/2018 13:08

Yesssss I am going to eat everything enjoy a mince pie and a glass of wine tomorrow.

We can do this! Off to make some peppermint tea 😇

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2018 14:19

Very positive & disciplined, alltalk You are indeed 😇

OP posts:
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 19/12/2018 14:46

Go, alltalk! You can do this! You too, 43. I am also fasting today and likewise struggling. I have had 3 cups of tea and a Pret protein box with an egg and smoked salmon (on about 240 cals). I have a trampoline class at 7.15 so won't get dinner til 8.30-ish, so I had to eat something! Tomorrow I am going out for lunch with friends, then there are office drinks at 4.30, and then I'm meeting a different group of friends for dinner. I must stick to 500 calories today!

fleabag, that all sounds v stressful! What's going on with your house purchase? FX it all gets sorted out soon!

Fleabag123 · 19/12/2018 15:15

Thank you all, feeling much better now the car is fixed.

House purchase has stalled - surveys done and mortgage approved but one of the vendors (divorcing couple) has said he’s not happy with the price we agreed but now gone AWOL. So can’t proceed, but neither have they backed out. Nothing else is coming up at the moment (and I can’t face house hunting again) so we’ll see what the new year brings.

Good luck for your FDs alltalk, cheddar and 43. We can do this! Xx

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/12/2018 15:28

We can... I'm the same as you cheddar in that I know I'm going to consume far too many calories tomorrow so I NEED to nail fd2 today....

Grrr flea that is very frustrating, I'd have to call their bluff and say I was pulling out...

Fleabag123 · 19/12/2018 18:47

I know...not brave enough to do so till we have something else but equally feel like I need to do something to spur them into making a decision

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