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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/12/2018 20:56

So rude to just go radio silence on you!!! grrrr

FD#2 done, don't bloody ask me how but I'm coming in about 570cals, today was hard but its done Smile how have you got on flea cheddar and alltalk??

Bring on the festivities tomorrow Xmas Grin

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 19/12/2018 22:04
  1. It would be slightly lower but for accepting a Quality Street in a meeting - I was the first person offered one, and the guy that brought them really didn’t have to! I felt like it would crush his generous gesture if I refused. Still, I have done it!

flea, grr, how annoying! Can you do a halfway house and get your solicitor to ask pointedly wtf is going on? FX he comes back v apologetic and the sale is still on!

Hurray for Thursday festivities, 43! Wine

alltalknobaby · 19/12/2018 22:20

Closing on 633 here. (Still getting into the swing of fasting so am aiming for sub-700 FDs for now.)

We did it! Well done everyone. Christmas treats tomorrow (in moderation, with meals, staying within TDEE and NHS limits bcf 😆)

Fleabag123 · 19/12/2018 23:11

Sadly I don’t think solicitors letter will make a difference. He’s (Mr seller) gone completely off radar. Possibly gone abroad. Husband STBEXW is mortified and desperate to get going but he is also on the deeds so can’t sell without him signing.
We’ll see what the new year brings but I can see us pulling out if nothing happens. Maybe they need to remarket to realise they won’t get a better offer? Risky strategy but equally we can’t proceed if stuck at stalemate.

Anyway I shouldn’t hijack the fasting thread with my woes! Fab closing cals from the fasters today, good work all, cheddar and 43. Mince pies for everyone tomorrow Xmas Smile

Fleabag123 · 19/12/2018 23:12

*His STBEX not husband!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/12/2018 00:05

Well done on nailing your FDs, 43, cheddar, alltalk

We post here about anything that is worrying us, fleabag - relationships, job, studying, business etc
because it sometimes lowers stress to vent anonymously

I've bought & sold a few properties over the years (I'm 62)
It's always stressful, because it is usually by far your most expensive capital asset,
then there all the buying / selling costs involved nd it takes so long

Especially atm, the market seems to be sliding and buyers are very nervous about committing to anything.
Do you have to move, or can you just sit tight until either your buyer or market confidence returns ?

What I learned after selling in Germany:

Nothing much can be done about dithering buyers
However, the UK system of buying / selling is ridiculously complicated, especially with leasehold - a hangover from mediaeval days

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/12/2018 00:07

oops, missed your update:

your seller - he may be reluctant to lose a home he is attached too
Can you stay put if you have to ?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/12/2018 00:09

As you may gather, when I sold my last Uk property, I had a dithering buyer

  • it took 6 months after we had agreed the price !
OP posts:
Fleabag123 · 20/12/2018 01:13

Thank you BCF. We can stay put, no pressing need to move urgently other than we hate our current rented flat but it’s fine and liveable and we are able to save.

I think we’ve decided just to let it ride for now. If something better comes along in the meantime we’ll go for that, if the seller decides to crawl back then happy days. This is the best we’ve seen for the money for months and ticks lots of boxes so it’s hard to walk away. But, I think one has to try not to become too emotionally invested as there’s so much at stake (and so much can go wrong!)

I’m sure it’ll work out in the end but I think as you say it’s always stressful even with the best will in the world!

quackingduck222 · 20/12/2018 07:54

43 - I am planning to fast hopefully Xmas eve and also the 29th. Last year I didn’t between Xmas eve and the new year and had a 8lb gain. Lesson learnt.

Fleabag - Good news about your car, feel free to have a moan. I am enjoying it yes.

BCF - I hope you take advantage of those lovely restaurants over the festive period.

AllTalk - I hope your FD went alright in the end. Enjoy your treats today.

43 - Hope your FD went well too.

Cheddar- How do you find it fasting on trampoline class? That sounds excellent by the way. Me and DD went for a hour not too long ago I was aching the whole week. It was brilliant.

Fleabag- Crossing my fingers for you it resolves itself. The whole moving / selling process is so stressful without being messed about like that.

FD today, anyone else in?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/12/2018 08:21

Yes of course alltalk Xmas Grin

Jeez quacking 8lb! Ouch

Meal not until 2.30pm so need to eat something mid morning or else I'll be on the floor after the first sip....hmm mm. ... what to have?

BigChocFrenzy · 20/12/2018 08:26

Good luck with your FD, duck

43 I suggest salad with some protein - e.g. egg / salmon / shrimps / chicken
or a veggy omelette

At the meal, remember the NHS daily limit is a 225 ml glass of wine, so order lots of water too

OP posts:
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 20/12/2018 08:34

Bacon roll, 43! Xmas Grin

Hope the selfish arsehole gives his head a wobble and gets on with selling you the house, flea!

Jeez, duck, 8lb?? Yikes. I have back to back family festivities from Christmas Day until New Year’s Day, so I won’t be able to fast. I suppose I might manage the 30th, as we’ll be driving home then. I’m planning on a Saturday fast this weekend too.

Trampoline was fine fasting - what sort of trampoline are you doing? Mine is gymnastics rather than the rebounding classes I’ve seen at trampoline parks. I love it! I came home high as a kite.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/12/2018 09:20

I don't eat red meat otherwise that sounds perfect cheddar!!! starts to drool at though of fried egg butty Will pop over the road in a bit and get some chicken and maybe some yogurt?

I'm a bit like you with back to back plans until the 29th when I'm hoping I can manage a FD

Thanks for the reminder bcf I'll listen out for your drone Grin

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 20/12/2018 10:18

I have healthily broken my fast with a piece of millionaire's shortbread made by a colleague. So glad he didn't bring it in on a fast day!

Verveine · 20/12/2018 11:20

I'm delurking to say thank you to all of you, most especially BCF, for all your support. I read this thread every week on my FD to keep me motivated.

I've been on maintenance for three years now, and 5:2 has changed my life! I'm 65 and have spent my entire adult life gaining and losing the same couple of stone. I had clothes in three different sizes and always felt uncomfortable.

I discovered 5:2 and lost the weight, and have been able to maintain at 8.9 - 8.12 with just one FD. I lose an extra couple of pounds before Christmas/holidays so I can relax and enjoy myself. I'm finally in control and it's a great feeling.

So a heartfelt thank you, and good luck to everyone on the journey. You can do it!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/12/2018 11:41

wow verveine what an amazing achievement Smile

I would second the advice and support from bcf and others on this board, it is invaluable Flowers

Borris · 20/12/2018 12:05

FD for me today. First for a while so finding it a bit tough. Also need to do some Christmas baking and this is the only day I can fast or bake. Ho hum.

Also doing stbxh donkey work. Should’ve said no but it’s hard. So say at our old house waiting for a delivery for dds Christmas present from him whilst he’s on holiday. It’s funny that the only day they gould possibly deliver just happens to be the day that he knows I don’t work Hmm

Kapoww · 20/12/2018 12:42

Hi everyone!
Just checking in and wanted to share that I saw positive results on the scales this week! I only have a small amount to lose and it’s been slow going but after 4 weeks I am a kilo lighter. 5 to go, and it could take months but now that I know it’s going in the right direction I can stop worrying about how quick it’s going and just go with it. This is the first time I’ve found something sustainable that I know I can keep going with long term. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 20/12/2018 13:20

Brilliant achievement, Verveine and thanks for sharing your story 💐
and it's excellent that you have an easy maintenance WOL

Especially when you are post-meno
5:2 / IF is the only method that works for many of us at this life stage, to reach goal and to maintain

No need to lurk - some of us posting are longterm maintainers too !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/12/2018 13:27

Well done on your SV, Kapoww
and for having the perfect attitude in your individual circs:

When you're well within the healthy BMI range and have only a small amount of fat available to lose, then progress is usually very slow

Good luck, Borris
Your STBX doesn't deserve such a kindness and we can see why he is STBX
12 useless stone off your back !

cheddar That's brilliant that you enjoy trampolining so much
It raises your heart rate, burns some fat and your mood rockets
Very good for your bones, too, to strengthen them for the longterm.

Thanks, 43, verveine 👍

OP posts:
Fleabag123 · 20/12/2018 16:36

Quickly checking in - amazing story Vervaine, and thanks for sharing.

The bloody car was dead again today!!! I don’t know who I’ve upset in the universe but agh.

Surrounded by work Xmas food today but managed to be as restrained as possible. Repeating “POO CRUMBS” to myself whenever I think of heading back to the kitchen for a nibble of something

alltalknobaby · 20/12/2018 18:34

Well done flea 💪🏻 Sorry about your car 😩

BigChocFrenzy · 20/12/2018 19:47

Good for you and the poo crumbs, fleabag

Maybe 5:2 needs a #PooCrumbs💩 handle !

Your car definitely sounds poo; how frustrating, but you've risen above all the stress

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 21/12/2018 08:10

43 / Cheddar - The 8lbs did come off in the first week back to good eating tho and 2 FDs.

Cheddar - Our trampoline park do Zumba type class. I’ve not been tho as they are quite expensive so me and DD just go to a open bounce session every now and again and have a blast. Wow that sounds excellent what your doing, have you been doing that long?

Verveine - Wow what a amazing story, BCFs advice has been absolutely invaluable.

Borris- Hope your FD went well in the end.

Kapoww - That’s fantastic to hear of your SV. Glad you’ve found something that’s substantial for you.

Fleabag - Well done on resisting work treats. Gosh there is a lot of work feeders out there. Hope your car gets sorted soon.

FD done, another 1lb off and back into happy weight after my carb loaded regain.

Anyone fasting today? If you are good luck.

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