5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Well done, granny including the chip-resistance
from your various posts, your DH sounds rather unhelpful

First FD finished at 536 cals. Going to drink some water then bed :)

Blossom- Congratulations on your loss, that’s fantastic.

MrDarcy, AllTalk, cheddar, littleMoon, pop, cheese, Harriet I hope your FD went well.

LittleMoon - Welcome to the thread.

BCF - Love blossoms idea for thread title “fast tracking our way to weight loss and better health 5:2 the way to the new you” your right, your definitely in the wrong job.

Pop - wow you sound amazing. I also ding fasting on run day fine it’s the day after I find I run out of steam.

TiP good to see you, did you have a good Xmas and new year?

Granny- Hope your mini went well.

AllTalk - Sorry to hear you struggled today, you’ve tried it and have figured out what works for you.

Scarlet - A extra egg is fine. I think the revised 800 FD only applies if your following the Mediterranean diet WOE or are doing blood sugar diet 800 cals a day every day.

Tiny - there are two threads running in the fasting topic 800 calorie blood sugar diet (8 weeks) , that one has great support too and this one for 5:2. I didn’t realize the fast 800 was a 2 week boot camp type diet. I really should read that book as I do enjoy MMs books.

Hi everyone and happy new year!

Fasting today. First time in ages! Well, first fast of 2019. I’ve never known a winter like it for bugs. We’ve all been so ill, so I’ve either been floored or looking after sick kids. I have been snacking . Fighting fit today, but it’ll be tricky remembering not to nibble!

Got an Instant Pot for Christmas. It’s my new fasting friend. I’ll chuck turkey steaks and some veg. in it for my FD meal. I’m working tonight, so I’ll eat at 3pm today.

Anyone else fasting today?

Well done on an excellent first FD, LittleMoon

Welcome back, Maz

Exercise question BCF - do you think if I only ever swam, (think 70ish lengths of fast front crawl including drills with floats) and maybe did a weights session once a week, that would be enough exercise without other cardio? I would aim to go at least 3 times a week....

Hi Granny - all I do is plonk a bit of flour onto a standard baking tray and bake the loaf on that as per the HFW recipe - I don't actually bake it in a tin. I've got one on the go today so will post some photos later. I do have a proving basket for the second prove which is only seven quid or so and makes a really nice pattern on the top. Then I just tip it out of the basket, onto the baking tray with a bit of flour on it, and stick it in the oven. Good luck with your starter! Keep an eye on it: sometimes when they get very excited they have a tendency to overflow. I keep mine in the fridge between bakes but when he's out and just been fed I put the container on a plate. (Mine is called Horace, incidentally, after the sentient cheese in Terry Pratchett's Tiffany Aching books.)

Morning! STS after yesterday's FD, but I have done very little exercise since before Christmas, so I expect that's not helping. I have a trampoline class for 1.5 hours tonight (new scheduling - used to be 1 hr) and I am ridiculously excited about it! However, I have been unable to go to the gym all week because of lunchtime meetings - yesterday's meeting was cancelled at the last minute, but I didn't have my kit so couldn't go. Plus PIL are coming on Friday which rather kiboshes things like running with friends/doing DVDs in the living room for the weekend. I will suggest a nice long walk on Sat as it's better than nothing.

Snail, the sourdough recipe looks awesome! I can't decide where would be good to start it, though - nowhere is particularly warmer than anywhere else. Kitchen isn't cold but it depends on whether the heating is on or not.

Good luck all today's fasters!

Lost half of my 3kg holiday gain so far and I'm now at the place where I hovered for months so MFP will continue for a week or two and we'll see where it goes.

Mazdaz the instant pot is my best friend. This is a new recipe I made last week that was great, and if you reduce the cheese is FD friendly

Well done on your SV, pop

If this is a toughweight "set point" for you, also check NFD sugar & alcohol, plus takeaways, deep-fried food etc
and of course, don't snack

Blossom I would go for quality over quantity; especially with a bad back, avoid long sessions.

HITT is fat more effectiv for building ftness
For cardio fitness I'd recommend 2-3 HIIT sessions of max 1 hour, e.g. on a bike / spin
plus 4 minute Fat Blasts on 4-5 days

If you like swimming, still cut down to a 1 hr session and do it once per week
Also try backstroke istead of crawl - might be easier on the back, might not.

For strength, better to have 2 sessions, but avoid lifts that strain your back, such as rowing and deadligts.
Instead, concentrate much more on working the big muscle groups - which burn the most fuel - in your bum and legs.
So, lots of squats, lunges, calf raises plus those abs & upper body exercises which don't strain the back

Hi there,
Well done to those on their FDs yesterday and good look to fasters today.

My B2B went well and ended yesterday and I very much appreciated the helpful support I got here. Thanks.

And thanks, even to quacky, who suggested I just spent the whole day in the loo. Fortunately for myself, I had other plans for the afternoon and decided to not follow this piece of advice.

Despite downing hot water and fresh lime juice, plus nearly a whole kilo of sprouts I am still in the same place. I'll try the hot water and lime again today and I'm thinking about going to the chemist's to get additional help.
If I don't do something soon I might end up popping and having to name change. ( Plus the name Pop is already taken). 😁

On a different note' thanks for the run down about fasting 800 BCF. I posted a question about it on the Mosely Thread yesterday but MM didn't answer. Perhaps I'm supposed to buy the book but riight now I haven't got any more time to read a whole book.

I’ve STS a little disappointing but not the end of the world. At least all the Christmas cake and cheese has gone now.

Good luck today fasters

bcf a colleague mentioned she was adivsed by (nutritionist?) to never drink with a meal to reduce reflux.
is there something in it?

well GroovieGazelloo you already have the 'loo' in your name

bran flakes? those usually do the trick...

Hi all checking in for FD2 of the week. Got up early and made a big bowl of salad with red cabbage, red onion, beetroot and red kidney beans dressed with red wine vinegar, salt and a little oil. I have just had a serving - need to work on my the cals but should be less than 200. Tonight I will dine on spicy crayfish and courgetti. This usually comes in about 220 so should see me through safely.

Hope all my fellow fasters have a good day.

Cheddar - I put my starter in the airing cupboard as my kitchen is cold unless we're actually cooking in it. One day on it's definitely doing "something". I found a good youtube vid series yesterday (Alex French Guy Cooking) so am following a different starter method which wastes less flour if it doesn't work and he explains a bit of the science, different types of flour, kneading methods, etc in a whole sourdough series.

The flour I have is not very finely ground and I found I needed to add more water than suggested as otherwise it looked like lumpy porridge!

HIIT class today after yesterday's FD was quite difficult but is done. Lunch tasted amazing.

Borris - my SV's are always a mixture sudden drops and plateau. Easier said than done, but just keep with it. I found even when on a 3 week plateau with the scales resolutely stubborn my waist measurement shrank.

Reminds me, must find my tape measure.

Groovie I hope that wasn't really a whole kg of sprouts !
Those kind of amounts of veg could of course block you up

With your tum, keep each portion of veg to say 120g and keep total carbs in a meal to 100g cooked weight

I suggest a couple of days of eating just 1 meal, only nutritious food, but not big amounts of anything, so 500-800 cal meal
However, drink loads of still water all day - aim for 2 litres - but no fizz at all.
Obviously no junk, booze or fruit juice
No bran or fibre supplements

For constipation (once per day) 
- 1 tbsp olive oil 
- 1 teasp lemon juice
Best to take on an empty tum, so either early morning or a few hrs after eating.

cheddar I just stick mine in the kitchen and it seems to work fine! Oooh, Granny, keep me updated on how your method for starter works. I originally tried Paul Hollywood's, which involved grated apple, and resulted in my nine-year-old refusing to enter the kitchen because smelled like beer vomit. He was absolutely right.

Last nights politics rather ruined my calorie intake
but today lunch was my usual small pot of dried fruit and a few nuts
and supper was a pork chop and sauerkraut with a couple of oven chips
so I'm well within TDEE for the day
getting back into MFP data sets

Wish me luck for my FD tomorrow guys!! Hoping it goes better than Tuesday did but I've made sure not to eat any crap tonight 🤞🏻

Good luck JC!

I've had an accidental b2b today, kitchen closing on 832 which I know is more like a mini but I'll take it.

Tomorrow I'm going to look at that sourdough recipe

Well done, alltalk
serendipitous fasting should always be grabbed and celebrated

Good luck, JC, you've done the best prep for tomoorrow's FD you can, as regards eating.

Also chop up some raw veg in case you just have to nibble
Have you got "medicinal" Marmite ? - it does steady the tum and helps the head.

You are back on track, TiP
Stay off those martinis now ! 😂

Mini FD for me today - finishing on about 920 cals. Probably another Mini tomorrow then I'm done for the week. Well done to all the "new starts" and everyone who has had successful FDs this week - this is a great WOL and you'll pick up individual tricks that help make it work for you. I've been maintaining for about 9 months now, after successfully losing 4 stone in about 10 months. I've gone from a BMI of 30.7 (obese) to 21 (healthy). I have a happy weight range which, after Christmas, I'm currently at the higher end of, but a few more weeks of "back to basics" should see me right.

So - keep going, this works and it can be done!!

703 for me today and 2.6kg of my holiday weight off! BOOM!