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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Calzone · 15/01/2019 12:57

I just love this group so I don’t mind which isn’t helpful. Sorry.

B.....2 porky lights, egg, mushrooms and onions
L....chicken salad with apple, sweetcorn and mayonnaise 💕
Banana
D.....Wagamamas.

PopGoesTheWeaz · 15/01/2019 13:32

I love this group too.

D2-B2B and I've been in meetings all morning which has been a great distraction, especially as I ran 10.5K this morning. And then came back to my desk and someone has had the bloomin cheek to have toast or pizza or something and it's filling the office with the most delicious smell. I was gnawing my knuckles so came on here for a distraction/moral support. Thank god for you guys !

I must say the snail sourdough sounds really tempting (I'm sure the smells in the office aren't helping) so I'll see about starting off a starter this week. I normally have some 50/50 or wholewheat sandwich bread in the house but I wonder what the health benefits pros and cons are of homemade bread, but with white flour, vs processed bread made with wholegrains are.

Kids are making themselves tea tonight (interesting experiment- just bread and hummus and snack cucumbers so no knives or heat involved) while DH WFH on a late shift so really happy to not have to do it as usually it's a big challenge on D2 of my B2B.

PopGoesTheWeaz · 15/01/2019 13:33

ooh, I was also going to ask if anyone had looked into the Mosley Fast 800 and just saw the web chat is happening now so will go have a look.

Cheeeeislifenow · 15/01/2019 13:52

Quick check in after lunch.
I tried biltong today,I have got to say it was a mistake for me. But lesson learned. For lunch I was on the go today, so I had an Aldi mango chicken salad, a really big portion it was 99 calories, I added 2 small turkey slices too.
So so far on 220 for the day. Dinner will be salad but not sure what protein
I would say I have drunk 1 5 liters of water too. Feeling good so far and a. Busy afternoon ahead.
Good luck fellow FD'ers!

Cheeeeislifenow · 15/01/2019 14:01

Well done @pop I can't imagine excercising on a FD yet.
Do you feel okay doing it?
I always am starving after my little runs too.

Iamblossom · 15/01/2019 14:20

Don't lurk and be a berk - try 5:2 and reveal the new you!

Smile
PopGoesTheWeaz · 15/01/2019 14:20

Its funny, I used to get starving after I ran and then when I picked up fasting again I had to really change my mindset and remember that in general, hunger passes and retrain my brain so that I didn't confuse the fatigue after a run with hunger.

This happened a while ago so I can't really remember if there was anything more to it than that but I do remember when I originally started running 5 years ago? 3 years ago? that I'd feel like I could eat a horse afterwards and would sort of have a tunnel vision approach to food afterwards. I was running 6 k and less so really doing anything to justify it.

But in the last year running has became such a norm for me and fasting as as well that they seem to work side by side fine. The only thing i'd say is that I can't push myself as hard after a fast as I might otherwise as I don't have the energy. (I guess the caveat is that I don't run fast - pace is around 6:20/km, but do cover quite a fair amount of ground 7-10km a 3-5 times a week.)

Iamblossom · 15/01/2019 14:22

scuppered myself by being starving going into a catered work lunch and scarfed 4 little sandwiches and a packet of walkers. No poo crumbs as was there at the unveiling but still impossible to calorie count. Have added it to MFP as 500 plus the crisps and will have a light tea.

Iamblossom · 15/01/2019 14:23

I never have any issues at all exercising on a FD.

Interestingly if I had say cereal for breakfast and then tried to exercise a few hours later I frequently have a whitey. If I have eaten nothing I never do and am totally fine...

Iamblossom · 15/01/2019 14:25

"Fast" Tracking our way to weight loss and better health - 5:2 your way to the new you

Smile

i'm in the wrong job

Ta1kinPeace · 15/01/2019 14:28

Right. I'm back.
The scales are saying a number much too big. My jeans are too tight.
Back to strict 5:2 and see if I can get back to low "happy weight" by my Birthday !

6kg to shift.

Cheeeeislifenow · 15/01/2019 14:29

Yes I think. Excercise for me before was definitely about what extra I could eat, it's definitely a mindset thing. It's un doing years of a certain way of thinking.

OohMrDarcy · 15/01/2019 14:35

Loving your suggestions blossom - definitely in the wrong job!

hey Talk - welcome back to the fold, you'll blast that 6kg in no time.. I'm back this year and have a tad further to go Wink

FD going well here - 2 litres (approx... really should measure this bottle to be sure!) water down and 350 cals left for dinner

Ta1kinPeace · 15/01/2019 14:43

Hi there Darcy

I have a new catch phrase as well ..... Crockery Bloat
Modern glasses and plates are enormous. Switch to old ones from Charity Shops or the recycling centre and a full glass of wine is suddenly a lot smaller Grin

Had scrambled eggs and ham for lunch
and the really old MM trick of a glass of milk with a small meal - the fats make you feel fuller

time to shop for something healthy for supper

snailhunter · 15/01/2019 14:52

Hey pop and cheddar, I do have a breadmaker but just use that for everyday bread for kids' sandwiches. With sourdough, you don't need a breadmaker. Here's the foolproof Hugh F-W method I use - it takes a little while to get into the rhythm of it but once you do it's great - it takes a long time to rise and prove but very little time to actually make!
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/may/10/hugh-fearnley-whittingstall-recipes-sourdough

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 14:55

Welcome back, TiP
Stick with us and you'll be back to Happy Weight Range

Pop Fast 800 is basically a bit of his BSD joined on to 5:2 BSD !
Plus in his book - which I've bought - he adds a lot of up to date science, which is good.

His daily Med LC (low carb Mediteranean) is different to Atkins low carb - and much healthier imo - by encouraging also on most days peas, beans, lentils, full fat greek yoghurt

So, 2 weeks daily VLDC - 800 cals on Med LC
or whatever time you decide

followed by longterm 5:2 BSD, which is daily Med LC with 5 NFDs and 2 x 800 FDs

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 14:57

Impressed with the title suggestion, blossom 🏅
but keep them coming, folks

OP posts:
PopGoesTheWeaz · 15/01/2019 15:42

Thanks snail
(And note to self - don't read recipes for bread on a FD especially when office still, inexplicably, smells toasty!)

GrannyPenny · 15/01/2019 16:19

Mini FD is going okay - am splitting my cals so have had a very late lunch. Going to wash-up, make coffee and then, thanks to Snail get my sourdough starter under way!

Ta1kinPeace · 15/01/2019 16:54

I tidied my cupboards today before going shopping for long term and short term.
No longer having to plan menus around teenagers gives DH and I a whole load of new menus for every day of the week.

As happens every time we fast strictly for a couple of months, he is likely to lose a lot more weight than I do !!

Still no idea what I'm going to eat tonight, but tomorrow is a fast day so that will be easy.

alltalknobaby · 15/01/2019 17:03

About to have tea - curry and rice. Saved almost all cals for tea and I have to say, this is NOT the way forward for me. I've struggled with nausea and strong hunger pangs today and felt extremely low on energy - although think I'm coming down with something. So next FD will be back to soup, boiled egg, raw veg for lunch followed by low cal ready meal for tea.

Something about wealth of health benefits in new title bcf as IF seems to have a lot more to offer than just weight loss?

ScarletPower · 15/01/2019 17:09

FD 2/week 2

MERGH - dead mad with myself. After being starving on Friday I bought a low cal ready meal for tea and made a lovely big fritata which would have bought me in at around 600 cals, but I miscalculated and thought I could have 4 eggs and not 3 so that put me over and then I had some news that enraged me so I had a packet of crisps.

So that's put me at 730 cals for the day.

However doesn't he say in his new version that up to 800 cals should be enough?

Ta1kinPeace · 15/01/2019 17:37

Alltalk
Some people (like me) find it easy to go without food all day. Others find it impossible. Pick a system that works for you as you will be doing it on and off for the rest of your life

Scarlet
Ah well. Tomorrow is another day. Think in terms of days and weeks and months and years and then the odd extra egg is no big problem Smile

scruffybarnsley · 15/01/2019 17:44

I'm another who saves myself 'til dinner because eating makes me hungry! All or nothing...

Just about to make chilli for tea, which I'll have with a little brown rice and as many different vegetables I can find in the house to fill me up!!!!

snailhunter · 15/01/2019 17:57

Absolutely go with what works for you, alltalk. I find it easier to go until dinner but I find it impossible to do back to back fasting days while others prefer it.

scarlet Don't worry! Chalk it up as a mini and don't give it another thought.

pop if you think reading the recipe is difficult on an FD, try baking the damn thing. I baked one on my FD last week and ohhhhhh, the temptation.

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