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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Pumperthepumper · 14/01/2019 15:35

Fd going well here too, although now in the after-school dead time before dinner. Going to have a hot drink in a bit then halloumi salad for dinner.

Cheeeeislifenow · 14/01/2019 15:38

Well done FD'ers!! Nearly there!

JcHcks · 14/01/2019 15:54

Well done you guys! FD isn't going well for me. Sick this morning and was so hungry I ate a ton of biscuits :( feeling so guilty now. I will end the day on 777 when I eat dinner. Do I attempt another FD or just put this day down to a loss?

harriethoyle · 14/01/2019 15:56

I'm on a mini, mainly because i had to run for a train with my holiday and work suitcases and couldn't get a low cal lunch Angry but thought a mini better than nothing. Full FD tomorrow.

Iamblossom · 14/01/2019 16:06

JcHcks I would claim 777 as a FD personally.

JcHcks · 14/01/2019 16:07

harrie how many calories is a mini? Is it 1000? Least you burnt off some cals running :)

Calzone · 14/01/2019 16:09

Thanks for the well dones everyone.

NFD today.

B....2 porky lights, mushrooms, tomatoes, egg, mushy peas ((I 💕 them)
L....chicken salad.....epic with mayonnaise and sweetcorn.
D.....leek and potato soup, chicken, jacket potato and salad

PopGoesTheWeaz · 14/01/2019 16:13

JCHcks feeling guilty is not allowed on this thread! We just pick ourselves, dust off, and move forward.

Plus, if you were sick that's probably your body telling you it wasn't happy with something so you really shouldn't force these things.

But anyway, especially as your just starting out, count it as a fast day. I would

JcHcks · 14/01/2019 16:15

Thanks pop I'll count it as a fast day then :) my body is used to eating little and often so I just have to stick to that I think

PopGoesTheWeaz · 14/01/2019 17:23

Hopefully not often though as that may spike insulin
Bcf can explain better but that's basically why we try to avoid snacking even if it's within calories allowance

JcHcks · 14/01/2019 17:45

Yea BCF has explained that to me but I just can't seem to win either way. If I don't eat I end up feeling sick and if I do then insulin spikes urgh

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2019 17:50

JC I suspect your sickness was due to having a very junky weekend, then an FD - too much stress on the gut.
So the day before an FD, eat 4 reasonably healthy meals, nothing between and no junk or booze

Snacking does hinder fat-burning
However, while you are getting used to FDs, you could try 3 small meals, so you have a little breakfast, e.g. a boiled egg, no bread
and have lots of raw veg in the fridge, so if you just have to eat something you don't go for biscuits

Good choices are carrots, celery, cucumber. They are v low cal - but don't have them with dip or sauce
Keep boiled eggs too.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2019 17:57

Harrie A miniFD (sub-1000 cal) was a good idea

JC See how your tum feels this week.

If you prefer, next week you could try the gentler alternative of 3 miniFDs instead of 2 FDs:
So, sub-1000 cals (same food rules as FDs - no junk, no booze) on e.g. Mon+Wed+Fri

blossom Maybe you need more frequent / regular chiro appointments ?
Indulge yourself
I have 40 mins hand & foot massage most Fridays at 5pm, a lovely way to end the week

You're doing well with your NFD meal plans, calzone with plenty of veg
I loooove mushy peas too - I often have them with baked salmon and sweet potato wedges

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2019 18:37

btw, Blossom I hope you leave 5 days after any chiro appointment before you do any exercise, even swimming or running.
My chiro always warsn me about this, or it would undo her good work

OP posts:
mystifiedinbrighton · 14/01/2019 19:12

I’m so hungry! On a fast day, not had anything other than tea so far today. Need my little one to go to bed pronto!

Iamblossom · 14/01/2019 19:40

Not exercise for 5 days???? Shock

FD done at 530. Really pleased.

mickeymacca · 14/01/2019 20:01

Well done everyone doing FD’s and sorry for any that are struggling In any way x I’m fasting tomorrow and planning on not eating at all until 6pm. I find that On a FD once i start eating my willpower seems to go out of the window so just one meal tomorrow then early night. Lots of herbal tea all day until then....

Calzone · 14/01/2019 20:06

I treated myself to a small post weigh in piece of pandoro, Italian vanilla cake.

I’ve had it with mango and kiwi and it’s not going to spiral me into a binge.

Borris · 14/01/2019 20:11

FD done here too. I thought it would be awful as felt hungry driving into work .... but when I got home I’d only eaten 150 cals so a decent 500 for dinner 😋

mickeymacca · 14/01/2019 20:12

Well done Borris and hope you enjoyed your treat calzone

HLBug · 14/01/2019 20:15

FD closing on 700

snailhunter · 14/01/2019 20:42

Kitchen closed for me too on around 550. Welcome back blossom - so sorry to hear you have been through such a horrible time. Hope you feel better soon JC. I always just quit a fast day if I’m ill! Maybe best to take it slowly as suggested.

TOTM has shown up out of the blue again! So will wait and see if I have any horrible headaches before doing next FD, currently planned for Thurs.

Cheeeeislifenow · 14/01/2019 20:53

So I have to meal plan for the week and do a big shop tomorrow on a FD?
Oh God that's gonna be hard. My husband brought home sweets yesterday and I have been craving them like mad!
But I have resisted Go me!

Pumperthepumper · 14/01/2019 21:06

FD done on around 530ish. Looking forward to breakfast though!

JcHcks · 14/01/2019 21:16

Thanks bigchoc for your advice and help 🙂 my next FD day is Thursday so I will make sure I have no junk Wednesday and eat proper meals