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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Cheeeeislifenow · 12/01/2019 20:55

Well done @oohmrdarcy

That sounds like a great change of thinking!
It's nice to feel in control isn't it?!

OohMrDarcy · 12/01/2019 20:56

Very much so cheese, well under TDEE too.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2019 22:09

Very good habits you are forming, MrD

OP posts:
Calzone · 12/01/2019 22:47

I hadn’t really decided what I was doing today and still not sure what I actually did......

Homemade soup
Bunch grapes

Katsu chicken curry with jasmine rice

Dh cooked it
The spicentice spices are free on sw
He used egg, flour and Panko breadcrumbs for the chicken and baked it.
Literally no idea how to count it.

No bingeing
No snacking
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 12/01/2019 22:56

I have stuck to TDEE today but I have been ridiculously grumpy about it! I’m not hungry or deprived (I had a cream tea earlier, ffs), but part of my brain thinks I’m both. I wish I could just press a button and stop wanting to eat all the chocolate in the house.

I have eaten:
Tea with milk
Ham and cucumber sandwich
Scone, clotted cream, jam
More tea
One line of peppermint chocolate
Glass of ginger beer
Steak with cauliflower cheese
More tea

Writing that out it’s very low in veg - apart from the cauliflower.

OohMrDarcy · 13/01/2019 08:31

Calzone- I wouldn't worry about counting it, unless your TDEE is incredibly low or you are mountains it should be fine for an NFD. This WOE needs to be sustainable, and if that means not working out every little thing then so be it in my mind. I work it out when i can, and when i cant - i take a rough guestimate based on the bits i do know and then add some extra to hopefully cover all eventualities.

Too - did you drink plenty of water too? That can leave you feeling hungry if you've not drunk enough. Otherwise, I'd say you've hit the nail on the head - always leaves you fuller and good for you too Grin

I'm literally sat in bad right now plotting my food for the day alongside my jobs.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/01/2019 08:38

Fantastic svs everyone Smile and some great nsvs too...

I know bcf I'm hoping some of that is totm bloat.... nfd today and another busy day decorating and what not. Planning fds for Tues and Fri next week. Happy Sunday everyone Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 11:03

cheddar you have 2-3 treats on 1 day there, which looks an enjoyable indulgent day
As MrD says, do boost veg though - 5 portions minimum on NFDs would keep you fuller
I get 7 most days, plus 1 fruit, which really helps me.

Are you getting the impression of being deprived from what your DH eats, or taller & slim women friends ?

Once past the teenage years, most women in particular (lower TDEE at healthy weight) can't consume as much junk as they like,
even though many can eat healthily without thinking about amounts

MrD, Cheddar WIth a few stone to lose, most people - not all - can lose quite a bit without NFD counting
However, some people who have been overweight for some years often need to retrain their "normal"

For this, mfp is a good tool, to learn what fits within TDEE
Like all training wheels, once the habits are properly learned, you can continue without them.

OP posts:
Calzone · 13/01/2019 11:06

Fast day today

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 11:06

and of course, after losing a few stone, your TDEE will be lower

This is one reason why many people with quite a few stone to lose, can zap the first bit of weight, but then get stuck and give up:
with the lower TDEE, they can no longer get away with eating as much as they want of anything they want, on NFDs

So, use the NFDs as "maintenance" days, to retrain your longterm habits

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 11:08

Excellent NFD yesterday, Calzone with really good NSVs

Good luck on your FD today

  • a weekend FD is usually even more productive than a weekday one, as it cuts down possible weekend sabotage.
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 11:17

Studies show that calories are not all the same:
They have very different effects on your body and metabolism

Added sugar and highly processed carbs spike insulin, which switches your body to fat storage
Many people who have been overweight for years can no longer process such foods properly and have become insulin-resistant, or even preT2

Even for those with still ok insulin metabolism, human studies have shown that a junky diet will add more bodyfat than the same calories of reasonably nutritious food.

Also, junk is nowhere near as filling for the same calories
So, get the most bang for your calories and boost veg, beans, lentils, also protein - to feel more satisfied

OP posts:
Calzone · 13/01/2019 12:23

I would just like to say a huge thank you for the support everyone gives on this thread especially BigChocFrenzy.
💐💐💐💐

I must admit I do get a buzz logging on here and seeing the comments everyone gets.

Weighing in day tomorrow. I haven’t looked yet all week.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 13:01

Good luck tomorrow, Calzone 🙂

OP posts:
Cheeeeislifenow · 13/01/2019 13:29

Hi guys! Just spent two hours at a rugby blitz with the kids. I am frozen ad hungry. It's a NFD, so trying to have a nutritous smallish lunch as dinner will be at five, with no bread!!

harriethoyle · 13/01/2019 14:57

Happy New Year gang!! I have put 6 kilos on having not 5:2ed since Dec 14th and spending a fortnight in the Caribbean! Grin BUT my holiday was amazing and quick on, quick off, right?! Confused Am fasting tomorrow and Wednesday and am off the booze til Thursday, possibly Friday. Hope you're all well and had more festive self control than me! Wink

JcHcks · 13/01/2019 16:01

Weekends are definitely my downfall!! I've managed to stay within my tdee yesterday and today but have just ate junk. Sweets, bacon sandwich, angel delight, jelly! I'm hoping when I start losing more it will spur me on even more but the start is always so hard 😫

GroovieGazelloo · 13/01/2019 18:53

Hello,
Just checking in. Finding the weekend harder than the week and working really hard at sticking to TDEE.
I feel hungry though. Hmm

Borris · 13/01/2019 21:49

I have to admit I’ve not calorie counted at all this weekend! Have had home made chicken tikka masala tonight which has to be healthier than take away (and cheaper!)
Back on with a b2b Tom and Tuesday. Anyone fasting tomorrow? Aiming for better NFDs this week

Cheeeeislifenow · 13/01/2019 21:55

The cravings dear God, husband brought back sweets why oh why???

I will resist.bed soon!

Cheeeeislifenow · 13/01/2019 22:06

Also, well below my TDEE for today and yesterday and yesterday was my "Don't worry about it day".
Did someone mentioned that there is a weekly tracker on MFP? Where do I find that?

mickeymacca · 14/01/2019 05:44

Successful FD yesterday. And have weighed in this morning at 11 stone 8 so that’s 2lbs off... happy with thst😄

Cheeeeislifenow · 14/01/2019 06:11

Well done @mickeymacca!!!

My first week on 5:2 and today is my first week in day (I have made it a Monday so I am mindful of it over the weekend)
Happy to say I have lost 5lb!!
That will keep me motivated today and for my FD tomorrow!
Wahoo

mickeymacca · 14/01/2019 06:16

Wow well done cheee that’s incredible!! I’ll be joining you a FD tomorrow

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/01/2019 07:23

Excellent svs cheee and macca
Welcome back harriet your holiday sounds amazing....

Nfd today after a so so weekend, I didn't mfp so no clue but I think I was okay... I think I'm going to be one of those that will always have to mfp I'm afriad or any accountability is soon out the window Smile skinny vanilla latte to take me through to lunch, then delicious chicken salad with potato salad and olives and a yogurt, no idea for dinner but soup maybe. .. fds I think will be weds and Fri this week, I'd forgotten I've got a lunch meeting tomorrow.

Good luck to the Monday fasting gang Grin