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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Cheeeeislifenow · 11/01/2019 23:18

@JC

Hope you enjoyed the dominoes!!

Cheeeeislifenow · 11/01/2019 23:19

@fortythree
Best of luck on your weight in tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2019 06:44

< blows out the last Fairy Soup bubbles >

Well done on your SV, JC

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/01/2019 08:07

Hope you enjoyed the pizza jc

Weigh in was pants, all totm and bloated but jumped on anyway, I'm still 4lbs heavier than before Xmas so christ knows how much I'd put on as I've been back fasting all week Sad hey ho, a good reminder how quickly I can pile on the weight when I take my eye off the ball....

Hope others have a better morning on the scales than me....

OohMrDarcy · 12/01/2019 08:19

Morning all, 1.5lb down here today. Ok but had hoped for more if I'm honest (Have a LOT to lose). I can only assume it was DS' birthday weekend that did it. I wasn't bad at all, but I suppose previously I would have gained weight so I should take it as a win and acknowledge the NSV of more restraint over his celebrations.

Anyway, onwards and downwards!

Current total 8.4lb lost including my Christmas loss before starting 5:2 ... not bad for a few weeks really!

OohMrDarcy · 12/01/2019 08:20

Oh 43, meant to say ... weighing in at TOTM was not your best plan was it! I bet it would be 2lb or so less if you waited! Keep going, you know the drill it will disappear again after TOTM has buggered off

OohMrDarcy · 12/01/2019 08:48

Just weighed myself again (ahem, after a number 2)... just under another 1lb down... so that makes it nearly 2.5lb which is much more what I was hoping!

New total loss 9.2lb Grin

mickeymacca · 12/01/2019 09:52

Well done mrdarcy great result. I had some wine last night for the first time In ages and I feel puffy and bleurgh. I’m going to do a fast tomorrow but will actually start it later today as I’m working this evening so my plan is to have my last meal today at 3 and then not rat anything again til around 3 tomorrow. Am weighing in Monday morning and TOTM bloat will be well gone by then too.

mickeymacca · 12/01/2019 09:57

Eat not rat duh

OohMrDarcy · 12/01/2019 10:16

Good luck Mickey, am sure you will rock it.

I've got an all day work think next week in London including dinner. I'm planning to sensibly enjoy it as it's a very good steak place. So a lovely filet steak and triple cooked chips will be coming my way, with some veg and a small glass of wine. As I know I'm going and planning to enjoy it, I'm fasting the day before and stick with the not eating until lunchtime bit, and make sure lunch is sensible. Hopefully won't be too much damage. I won't be drinking lots as need to navigate back across London to get the train home again after!

Gingefringe · 12/01/2019 10:51

Hi everyone. Just started the 5:2 last weekend and have lost 3lb already. I'm finding this post so inspirational and I'm definitely 'in the zone' now.

I'd be interested to know what you normally eat on your FD days - I had yogurt (home made easiYo) for breakfast, two boiled eggs and an apple for lunch and cabbage soup for dinner on both days. I was a bit hungry going to bed but i just looked forward to my next breakfast and had a glass of water.
I have about 2 stone to lose so would be keen to know how much weight loss to expect each week - what are your experiences?
Thanks everyone.

ScarletPower · 12/01/2019 11:06

Well I did say I was going to weigh in only after my 2nd fast day of the week, but I couldn't resist getting on the scales today and they were down another 1.6lbs, so that is 7lbs off in less than two weeks!!!! Yesterday was worth it.

I know it will start coming off at a slower pace soon but I'm one of these with a minimum of 50+lbs to shift so hopefully not too soon.

OohMrDarcy · 12/01/2019 11:13

Scarlet massive congrats on the SV! Brilliant progress. I've got in the region of 100lb to go so I'm happily chugging along too.

Welcome Ginge. For me FDs are all about protein, veg and water. I don't have breakfast at all - mainly because of the health benefits of going longer before eating (not recommended more than 23 hrs ever I believe). I go from dinner time the day before until lunch with only water if possible, very occasionally a cup of tea with a dash of lactose free milk slips in. Lunch is often either a salad or a single egg omelette with no more than 15g mature cheddar for flavour and sometimes a slice of two of wafer thin ham, or soup. And dinner is generally some kind of protein - chicken, prawns, fish with lots of veggies.

I use seasonings to stop it getting boring but it helps me to keep it simple on the fasting days. If I were you I'd aim to avoid fruit on FDs as can leave many feeling hungrier. Maybe swap to a raw carrot?
The other thing is water, lots of it - stops from feeling hungry generally and keeps me feeling good.

Hope that is of help!

Cheeeeislifenow · 12/01/2019 11:27

Hi @Ginge

I started this week too!
FD 2: I had
B:water and lemon
3eggwhite omlette, 2cherry tomatoes and spinach
L: soup (2 carrots, leek, garlic, stock)
D: home made bol sauce (little lean mince, lentils, passata, herbs, green veg)

Wasn't hungry, but at 9pm ish. I wanted food, it wasn't hunger though.
I have found this week quite easy to be honest and I think I have found something that works for me.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2019 12:45

43 I recommend against weighting during totm
It's too misleading - many women can temporarily put on a few lb

Well done on your SV, MrD
Sounds a lovely day in London next week. Enjoy

Well done on your SV too, Scarlet
Excellent start
Those with quite a bit to lose often continue losing quickly for several weeks

Welcome, ginge 🙂

Most people lose quite a bit in the first 2 weeks, then gradually settle down to their longterm loss rate

This is very individual and depends on several factors:

  • how much they have to lose - with 2 stone, you would probably lose more quickly than someone already in healthy BMI

  • how long you have had the extra weight: if someone has been overweight a long time, it's often tougher
    because the fat may have changed their insulin metabolism
    and also they have often got used over the years to eating more than they burn and / or too much junk & alcohol

  • whether you have insulin resistance / pre T2 - if so, you'll need to cut right down on sugar and probably starchy carb portions, on NFDs too

  • whether you have done a lot of yo-yo dieting over the years - that tends to make it more difficult on any diet

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2019 12:55

ginge Your meals look ok; you'll soon work out the system that best suits you
I'd suggest boosting veg, so you feel fuller
If you eat fish, that is very filling and nutritious too.

Many of us skip breakfast - just have unsweetened black coffee / espresso
so we save our calories for lunch & supper, or just supper

My main FD meal is usually a late lunch of salmon fillet, with a huge mixed salad, dressed with balsamic
Sometimes I have prawns instead.
Or have a big veg stirfry with fillet steak strips

My supper is usually veg broth with a couple of tiny raw carrot grain-free crackers
which I have right after evening training

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2019 12:58

oh and what makes a big difference in the rate of loss is your NFDs:
these are supposed to be "maintenance days", so don't eat back the FD deficit.

What helps is to keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits, NEVER snack / graze between meals,
sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks

OP posts:
Calzone · 12/01/2019 15:24

I ate dinner at 6pm last night and have just had a bowl of homemade leek and potato soup.

It was fat free.

Tonight is Sw friendly chicken katsu curry.

No snacking.
I can do this.

GrannyPenny · 12/01/2019 16:39

Thanks again for the advice BC, think i'm going to continue MFPing for the foreseeable future so I can keep track and make sure I keep making better food choices.

SV today - good news is I'm down 2.1kg since returning, although I do realise this is mostly water. Less good news is i'm still 1.3kg heavier than the same time last year.

NSV - doing weekend food shop this morning I just realised I walked past the dessert/snacks isles without cravings, so that's a huge win!

I would have re-measured my waist as i'm carrying a lot of extra fat round there again, but alas it is misplaced. Last seen in the hands of a 3 year old so it could be anywhere.

Cheeeeislifenow · 12/01/2019 18:38

Probably being thick..what is SV and NSV?!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2019 18:39

Excellent progress, granny especially the no cravings NSV
Well done on your SV

Stay focused and that waist fat will melt away over the weeks too.
Onward to goal - once no junk becomes a longterm habit, you should find maintenance much easier

Well done on the No Snacking progress, Calzone

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2019 18:40

Cheee SV = scale victory, i.e. weight
NSV = non-scale victory, i.e. not weight

The OP has an "acronyms" section near the top

OP posts:
Cheeeeislifenow · 12/01/2019 19:49

Ah thanks was looking for it and I didn't see it, thanks!

OohMrDarcy · 12/01/2019 20:47

Granny congrats on the SV

Calzone hope you've enjoyed your dinner and managed no snacking, I'm sure you have.

So today, as it's Saturday I've had a more relaxed day. Dinner tonight has been and 'easy ' one... half a thin and crispy pizza from Sainsbury's with some wedges. I'd normally eat the whole thing but just didn't want more. Also bunged some mixed veg with it that I wouldn't when not thinking.... and I didn't do that because I felt I should... I was just making dinner and felt like something was missing until I put that on. Carrots, peas, sweet corn and green beans. Then I had a small portion of lightly salted popcorn for dessert- because I fancied it and can Grin.

So I'm taking some NSVs here...
1 naturally wanting veg with a lazy meal
2 eating a sensible portion of it
3 having the popcorn as dessert rather than opening the back an hour or two later and demolishing the whole bag (4 portions)

Happy Darcy tonight

Oh and loads of water today too!

Cheeeeislifenow · 12/01/2019 20:53

Saturday is my..."don't worry about it day!"
Breakfast was Cheerios I would have eggs but it's my shopping day and the cupboards were bare!
Lunch was beans and a wholemeal pita bread
Dinner was a fake away in home made chicken satay

Treats for my movie night at home made cinnamon popcorn .2 small ginger biscuits and a glass of Bailey's later!
I'll have to put it in MFP but I doubt it will be loads. Tomorrow is NFD but I'll be fully mindful of my eating!

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