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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
greenelephantscarf · 10/01/2019 20:15

kitchen closed on just under 600
left over of steamed kale & gammon and one (1) boiled potato.

I try to visualise my portion on a toddler plate: meat/carb/sauce in the 2 small compartments and steamed veg/salad in the big one.

well done all fasters: good achivements all around

alltalknobaby · 10/01/2019 21:19

Everyone is doing fantastically well! I'm so impressed and inspired by this thread.

I've had an accidental 2-day full fast and mini today, got some personal stuff going on and I always struggle to eat when I'm upset. Tomorrow I must try to eat as I'll have my toddler all day Grin and I'll need the energy.

I'll be watching the MM thing with interest next week!

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 10/01/2019 21:38

Well done, jc and greenelephant!

Hope everything sorts itself out, alltalk. Sorry to hear things are stressful just now.

I shall read the MM webchat with interest, thanks MrDarcy!

B2B finished, thank goodness. I was really struggling this afternoon! Came in at 630 today (and 675 yesterday) - perfect! Kitchen is now closed and I’m in bed with a pint of water.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 10/01/2019 21:55

Blimey this thread is moving fast!!!!! Cant scroll back on my phone without loosing test so well done all on your fds nfds etc. pumper I hope you are feeling better soon Flowers

Hope you feel less stressed soon alltalk Flowers

Good nfd today, had soup and some lovely cheesy bread for dinner followed by a scone (!) But all within tdee and I've felt so full and satisfied since....

Fd tomorrow with mrd anyone else joining us Grin

Pumperthepumper · 10/01/2019 21:56

Thanks BCF I’ve relaxed a bit and had something to eat and a good sleep and I’m feeling a bit better. Yes, I think I’ll wait until monday for my next fast and take it easy over the weekend.

snailhunter · 10/01/2019 22:00

Well done Thurs fasters! I’ve finished on around 550. Left enough for a small unsweetened cocoa as really felt in need of it after a v stressful day. Off now to snuggle up with hit water bottle or negotiate with non sleeping 9 year old. Hopefully the former!

Cheeeeislifenow · 10/01/2019 22:16

Day 2 FD! Finished on 425. Feeling a bit peckish but not starved.

The soup I made today was incredibly filling and for dinner I had 2 skinless chicken drumsticks and loads of stir fried green veg and broccoli.

Is there a good way to calculate how many Cal's to eat on a NFD?
My MFP says 1643 off the top of me head! I am not reaching that most days at all. Should I be eating less?

PopGoesTheWeaz · 10/01/2019 22:22

d2 b2b finished at under 500 so that evens out with my slightly high ket lagged fast yesterday. feeling great and looking foward to my pancake tomorrow ;)

greenelephantscarf · 10/01/2019 22:27

oh no snail nothing like a non sleeping pree teen, they have so much 'stuff' in their heads that needs sorting before they can sleep and they say toddler years are hard

greenelephantscarf · 10/01/2019 22:29

cheee have a look on the first page, bcf posted a few calculators and explanations.

Cheeeeislifenow · 10/01/2019 22:30

Thank you @green I will!

Calzone · 10/01/2019 23:07

Love the tip for the salad dressing......

I think that because it was tuna, I needed something wetter as the tuna was very dry. I counted 100 cal for the mayo though.

I can eat tomorrow so planning on a nice cooked breakfast.....maybe a mushroom and cheese omelette with baked beans.

HicDraconis · 11/01/2019 02:12

Glad your df came through surgery, HLBug - hopefully not too long in icu for him next.

Pretty good NFD for weds/thurs considering I was at work from. 8am Wednesday to 8am Thursday (post op complications followed by an epidural followed by two caesars and a hip relocation) - I get carb cravings when I’m up all night and the following day. Managed to sleep a fair bit of Thursday morning and didn’t have brunch on either day until well into the afternoon which helped I think.

FD today - coffee, carbonated water and a portion of onion/mushroom/pepper/scrambled egg for lunch so far. Sitting at 250 including the skim milk in the coffee - enough left for a small piece of steak and some coleslaw for dinner.

I’m drinking much more water with this WoE, which can only be an added bonus!

BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2019 06:44

Well done,green, cheddar, snaill, cheee, pop, calzone** and all the Thursday fasters

Good NFDs too, 43, HIC - looks like good habits are forming for "normal" eating

Alltalk I hope your personal worries & stress are resolved asap 💐
If you can, vigorous exercise boosts natural healthy chemicals to help take your mind of things
A punchbag is very satisfying, if you can't get out *

cheee* and anyone else wanting an NFD guide:

If you like a limit, Mosely's calculator, (also in the OP under "How To Start") more reliable than some others :**
Calc TDEE

If you are a regular exerciser, then Mosely recommends using one activity level lower than you think,
because most people & gadgets significantly OVER-estimate exercise calories.

On NFDs, stop eating if you are satisfied - it's fine to eat below TDEE some days - but try to eat up to TDEE at least one day per week
Don't force yourself below TDEE if you are still hungry, as it probably won't be sustainable - you need 5 days to relax more.

What helps keep within TDEE without counting
and improve
calorie quality to boost loss^ are
5:2 healthy habits even at weekends - turn them into lifelong good habits:

.NHS alcohol limits
.no snacking / grazing between meals
.sensible about sugary treats, deep-fried foods, takeaways, crisps
.have lots of water & veg
.cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones

OP posts:
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 11/01/2019 07:34

Post-Christmas weigh in (after a B2B): I’m only up half a pound! Thank goodness - I was scared to look in case it was heaps!

OohMrDarcy · 11/01/2019 07:55

Morning all

Checking in for Friday FD with 43! I'm feeling good today, no idea why 😁

Planning on nothing during the day whilst at site, and then a lovely big Sainsbury's be good to yourself Cesar salad with paprika chicken on top I think.... yum yum.

alltalknobaby · 11/01/2019 08:00

Good luck MrD, 43 and all Friday fasters!

Well done cheddar, that's excellent damage limitation Smile

HicDraconis · 11/01/2019 08:10

Finished up at 492 for the day. Have a great Friday everyone fasting today!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/01/2019 08:18

snail hope your DC slept well for you?

Well done to chee pop and hic, blimey hic what's your job as it sounds exhausting!!

Mmmm enjoy your breakfast calzone

quacking no the xmas chocs are still around but I'm letting DH and DS eat them Grin

Excellent result cheddar I'm plannng to weigh in tomorrow but not very optimistic, hey ho...

Morning mrd at the office already and subway salad in the fridge for lunch. No idea what's for dinner, maybe an omelette or some soup... good luck Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2019 08:23

Well done, HIC

That's good, cheddar
Now you can power on and make further progress to goal

You both sound very positive for your Friday FD, MrD, 43
A good lead into the weekend.

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 11/01/2019 08:56

Pumper - I hope you feel better soon.

Cheddar- How did your B2B go?

LifeNow - Welcome to the thread

Macca- I hope your mini goes well on the weekend.

Snail - Crossing my fingers for a amazing weigh in for you.

Calzone - Well done on your FD.

JcHcks - Well done on your second FD, how did you find it?

AllTalk - Do makesure you have a good meal today.

Snail - Well done on your FD.

Hic - Good luck for your FD, well done on all the extra water.

MrDarcy - Good luck for Friday FD.

43 - Good luck for your FD?

Well B2B went alright, lost my brain as was so hungry. I prepped my tea and walked away to go back and find the oven on but my tea sat on the counter not cooking. 😂
I’m a bit disappointed by the result tho 1.6 lbs over 2 days. NFD today but will aim for a good day.

Good luck to all the fasters today.

HicDraconis · 11/01/2019 09:12

What do people do about fasting on exercise days? I usually do some fairly strenuous martial arts classes Mon/Tues/Thur/Sat/Sun but I don’t necessarily want to fast Weds and Fri every week.

Is it ok to have a good 2h workout on FD?

greenelephantscarf · 11/01/2019 09:18

it's ok to work out on fast days, but maybe ease into this woe by having the fast days on non exercise days at first.

Calzone · 11/01/2019 09:20

I can eat today!

B.....mushroom and cheese omelette with beans
L....minestrone soup
D....clam and prawn linguini with salad

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/01/2019 09:37

oh dear quacking a sure sign that you were hungry Grin re: result, do you mean 1.6lbs off? that's good isn't it??

Mmmm calzone your dinner sounds delicious

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