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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Stircrazyschoolmum · 08/01/2019 10:38

bcf that’s a great idea.. I’ve got some similarly ‘generous’ gifts that I might pop down to my local church.. nice to think of someone getting pleasure from them. Smile

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 08/01/2019 10:59

Morning all! Checking back in after a lavish Christmas holiday. Back to work this morning and it's a struggle, to say the least.

I haven't fasted or used MFP or anything - managed one 10k hike up a hill and one run in 2 weeks. I was going to have my first FD of the new year yesterday, but I had the most horrible tummy cramps so I decided to leave it. I am therefore planning to have a restrained NFD today followed by fasting tomorrow and perhaps doing a B2B with Thurs. I am not going to weigh myself until after the second FD - too scared!

Everyone is doing so well - I'm impressed by everyone starting back so promptly!

ScarletPower · 08/01/2019 11:00

I'm trying to input some food onto MFP but it just keeps saying no results found - I have had it before and then I tried coffee just to see if it was my first item it was throwing a wobbler about but it reckons there's no results for coffee either - is it down for anyone else?

alltalknobaby · 08/01/2019 11:31

Bug just wondering how your DF got on with his op. Hope all okay.

GroovieGazelloo · 08/01/2019 11:47

Hi all,
Decided to do a B2B so am on 2nd FD today . And did exercise yesterday and again today too.

This is a big thing for me. Last time I did 5:2, a few years ago, I did sometimes do B2B but rarely. Also, I don't remember it being an "official " term so I did feel a bit guilty about it. As if I was overstepping the mark. 😊

The reason I lost the plot last time was because once I'd lost the weight I wanted, I had no plan at all about how to maintain. So,this time , I'm eager to learn about that whilst I'm on the way down. 😊

greenelephantscarf · 08/01/2019 11:49

I'm sort of maintaining, doing 6:1 but have to get rid of christmas wobble first

GroovieGazelloo · 08/01/2019 11:54

Hi green,
Looking forward to following how you manage the maintaining once the wobble's over. 😁

Fleabag123 · 08/01/2019 11:57

Hello chums

Checking back in post Christmas - was dreading and putting off weighing myself but overall I’m down 5kg since I started on 17th Nov. Super happy with that and I’ve tentatively started including some exercise. House purchase stuff is still a disaster which is stressful.

Really loving this WoL Smile

Happy fasting everyone

BigChocFrenzy · 08/01/2019 12:39

Cheddar Don't fast if your tum is acting up.

Give yourself a TLC NFD - no alcohol, junk food or fruit juice since these can all be irritants
Plan a good night's sleep and I hope you feel ok in the morning, but don't rush to fast if you're not sure.

Welcome back, fleabag
(I'm sure your hygeine is excellent !)
and well done on your progress since November

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/01/2019 12:42

For Groovie: From experience, everyone needs a definite maintenance plan, because good intentions aren't enough for most of us !

If you return to your old WOE, your return to your old weight & waist

Maintenance recommendations:

  • First 2 weeks: keep WOE unchanged, to make sure weight is stable, within goal range.
  • After this, gradually ease towards maintenance routine, one step at a time

(Longterm) Maintenance:.

  • Keep up some form of regular fasting
    Some folk do 6:1, others do 5:2 with 800 FDs and eat back the deficit - whatever suits you-
    Also do daily 12:12 at least, i.e. at least a 12-hour overnight fast.

  • Weigh regularly, at least weekly
    If you exceed Happy Range, or notice waist expanding / getting puffy, then return immediately to full 5:2

  • NO snacks or grazing, ever

  • Keep within NHS alcohol limits

  • Keep sweet / junky / alcohol treats to sensible amounts (guide total if you like this, is at most 20% of weekly calories)

  • Drink lots of water

  • Eat lots of veg of different colours, but no more than 2 portions fruit daily

  • Regularly include beans, lentils, peas, plain yoghurt, nuts / seeds.

  • Have fasting breaks for vacation, but keep good habits
    and before you start, note in your calendar the day you will return to plan and have your next FD.

OP posts:
Racheyg · 08/01/2019 12:42

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy it's really helpful seeing it all in layman's terms.

Fleabag123 · 08/01/2019 13:12

Haha @BCF the name is an homage to the Phoebe Waller-Bridge TV series and not hygiene related Wink

OohMrDarcy · 08/01/2019 13:31

Just had my delicious lunch here - had calories spare after putting it all in MFP so added in a couple of slices of wafter thin ham... made for a very yummy and filling omelette.

Interestingly, I'm trying to save cash this month as have managed to skint myself, so much easier with doing 5:2! I've also discovered I can freeze lots of prepped veg so bought swede / celery / leek at the shop at lunchtime and am going to prepare it and stick in the freezer for when needed - then I won't waste half a swede / leek every other week like normal!

Losingthewill8 · 08/01/2019 13:46

Hi, I think I'm a fairly intelligent woman........however, can you please confirm if I use coconut milk in a recipe, full fat, and I have literally hardly any of it apart from what is stuck to the chicken, can I reduce my calories? Confused

I hope that makes sense?

Plus, does anyone just use shop bought, ready to eat lunches/dinners and calorie count this way?

I'm getting some kind of blindness from calculating them all. Yes, I'm using MFP, which keeps saying 'offline' when I'm obviously not!

Thank you.

mickeymacca · 08/01/2019 13:59

yep B2B for me bcf I'm going to only eat one meal today which will be around 3pm then just herbal tea and water until the morning. That will give me another nice long break before I next eat tomorrow. I find later afternoon/evenings is when I want to eat so if I just dont start eating I think that will help. We'll see how that goes!

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 08/01/2019 14:30

FFS. Just discovered that DH is fasting without me. Fucker. How dare he stealth fast?

Calzone · 08/01/2019 14:32

I’m doing ok.....

It’s a NFD so I need to be careful not to binge.

I’ve had my overnight oats and I ate 3 pieces of fruit as I didn’t see the message in time.
3 eggs, smoked salmon and broccoli for lunch.

I’m preparing to have meatballs, 100g spaghetti and sautéed courgette to bulk it up.

Stircrazyschoolmum · 08/01/2019 14:36

Eek! I wonder if MFP has exploded with all the New Years resolutions?!? The only time I’ve had it say it can’t find a food is when it’s searching my own personal list rather than ‘all foods’ if that makes sense? And yes, calories would reduce per item by serving size, I.e half a portion, a quarter of a portion, depending on quantity of coconut milk used. losing I think lots of folk use ready meals for FD’s or have 2 or 3 preferred meals (omelette, stir fry, salad) that they know are low cal and save faffing.

So much for waiting till teatime today, my body is still in holiday mode!
Rather than trying to hold out then pouncing on the biscuits/kids leftovers, I’ve had a bulky chicken salad. Not sure I’m as strong as you Mickey I’ll be peckish again by 6!

GWS cheddar, your approach sounds sensible.
43 how are you doing today?

groovie and green I’m a new maintainer too and scared stiff of reversing all my hard work. Hopefully we can all take baby steps together? Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/01/2019 15:28

I can't keep up with this thread Grin but its great to have some many new people on here!! stir so far so good, just a chopped turkey salad and lots of tea so far, how about you?? Are you just doing 6:1 now you are maintaining??

Oh cheddar how rude of your DH Grin
calzone that sounds like a good healthy NFD??

losing yes, just reduced the calories depending on how much you have, tricky when cooking for a family but you'll soon learn to guestimate.

MFP fine for me so far today, hope it stops playing silly buggers soon!!

GrannyPenny · 08/01/2019 15:38

I've been having trouble with MFP too - yesterday evening I kept getting a "server busy" message and although it's been a bit better today the search has been hit and miss.

I'm very relieved to report that the headache has finally subsided although my "stay strong" ring has had a lot of twiddling today with quite persistent sugar cravings (which I am resisting).

I have pilates this evening but am wondering whether to substitute it for gym circuits tomorrow. Decisions, decisions.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/01/2019 15:53

Granny A change can help shake things up and the vigour of circuits would probably help atm
as well as ring-twiddling, of course !

cheddar Stealth fasting - the swine !

OP posts:
alltalknobaby · 08/01/2019 16:00

Cheddar stealth fasting! Ltb!

Yes I've been finding MFP a bit hit and miss with searching today.

Have had to reach for a coffee with half a sugar this afternoon. Still a few hours until tea time and I'm feeling it.

Hockneypool · 08/01/2019 16:10

Fasting today is going a lot better. So far have had a tomato and artichoke salad and some Greek yogurt for lunch. Counting down to dinner now - vegetable omelette and salad - but hanging in there!

OohMrDarcy · 08/01/2019 17:05

Evening all

FD going well here - about 3 bottles of water down and a cup of tea, as well as my lunchtime omelette.

Looking forward to my dinner of paprika chicken with carrots, green beans and brocolli shortly.

Hope everyone else is doing ok, Cheddar what a cheeky DH you have fasting in secret without you!

Losingthewill8 · 08/01/2019 17:23

Thank you. No headache so far today!

Lunch was avacado, boiled eggs and smoked salmon and dinner chicken, coconut and lentil curry. I hope it's good.

I'm glad to hear about ready meals on FDs.

The 60g protein rule, is that easy enough to follow on ready meals? Is it your quality of sleep that it affects?