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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
HLBug · 06/01/2019 18:29

Weird day with life "stuff" - had breakfast this morning (mashed banana on toast / coffee / orange juice) but nothing since. So I'm going to turn this into a FD. Will have an Options hot choc later this evening so...about 600? DF having a fairly major operation tomorrow so not really in the mood for food. Plus, bizarrely it's nice to have something today that I have some control over? Helps me feel a bit calmer.

mickeymacca · 06/01/2019 18:38

Sorry to hear that hlbug. Hope the op goes ok and you have a better day tomorrow

Borris · 06/01/2019 18:56

Yes thinking of your df tomorrow bug

Borris · 06/01/2019 18:56

Mickey - I’m b2bing Tom and tues so we can buddies😀

Borris · 06/01/2019 18:59

I’m 5ft6. Was 64.2 kg before Christmas ... dread to think what I’m now. Will weigh on Wednesday after this b2b. Started 5:2 at 72kg. Aiming for 60kg which is a bmi of 21. So not certain I’ll get there but giving it a go Smile

mickeymacca · 06/01/2019 19:07

Oh great Borris we can do it together! The same height as you and have started at 11 stone 10. Don’t know what that is in kg though... aiming for just under 10 stone intimately but goal is 20lbs off by May...

mickeymacca · 06/01/2019 19:13

Ultimately not intimately!!!😂

Borris · 06/01/2019 19:46

We are very similarSmile. You started at 74kg and want to get around 62kg.

I find kg easier to work with as I use them at work.

OohMrDarcy · 06/01/2019 20:16

Thinking of you and your dad HLBug hope it goes ok.

😂 I remember it well BCF!!! The DC are with their dad overnight after school tomorrow so I'm going to plot out some rewards then.

DS had a fab birthday and we had a lovely day. Went for a walk to the local park for some laser nerf wars (!) And then on to the local pub where we all had burgers, but I had no pudding 😇. I've had a small piece of his birthday cake this evening in lieu of dinner as nobody was hungry enough for another meal. I'm taking that as a win, feels like I've taken reasonably sensible options and not been silly this weekend.
The normal grind starts again tomorrow here and I'm not looking forward to it to be honest, but hey- such is life. Got my next FD planned for Tuesday and I'm feeling good other than that.

HicDraconis · 06/01/2019 20:30

Happy new year all! I fell well and truly off the fasting wagon over Christmas and managed to undo all the good work from earlier. However, consoling myself with the thought that it would have been worse if I hadn’t started in December. First FD of the year for me and so far managing on coffee and carbonated water. Temps are ridiculously high here (36 yesterday) so hoping it’ll be too hot to feel too hungry.

Things I am looking forward to with 2019 fasting:

  • fitting into my clothes better
  • losing that sweaty patch under my chin
  • being able to run more easily

Hope your df’s surgery goes well HLBug.

Mickey - I’m around 5’3” (I think - 1.6m) and I weighed in at 86.6kg this morning. Aiming to get to 60kg which gives me a BMI of 23.5 or thereabouts.

mickeymacca · 06/01/2019 20:35

Hi Hicdraconis thanks for adding your stats.. I was going to ask if those working in kg’s weren’t living in the uk and your current temperature has answered my question!!😂

BigChocFrenzy · 06/01/2019 20:41

Best wishes for your DF surgery, bug 💐

60kg sounds very doable, Borris

Welcome back, HIC
You'll soon be back on track and you are certainly in a better position than if you were only starting now.

If you still have fairly urgent reasons to lose, I recommend you try to stay focused from now until target, even on holiday.
Of course you should celebrate birthdays etc, but plan them to be occasional single meals, not entire feast days or weekends

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 06/01/2019 21:14

Just here to say hello - I did 5:2 last year and lost about an stone and a half, then stopped around summertime. Starting again tomorrow, hoping to lose another two stone from here (gained about half a stone since stopping). Anyway, first fast day tomorrow 👍

GrannyPenny · 07/01/2019 00:24

Oh, that sounds very stressful HLBug - hope tomorrow goes as smoothly as possible for your DF.

Today has been a better day for me although I slept very badly last night which is unusual. Still have a minor headache but at least i've stopped feeling cold/hot/cold.

Made my ring this morning - decided to add an exclamation mark after 'stay strong' aaand stamped it upside down! Grrr. So made another ring this evening, slightly different and added a copper heart. Upside down. Grrrr. I'm blaming sugar withdrawal.

Exercise-wise am doing okay BigChoc. A change in gym class instructors has put more emphasis on conditioning away from cardio so I'm trying to get back into running at least twice a week. I've worked out that I only need to run 525 miles to burn off the weight I've put on since August Grin

HicDraconis · 07/01/2019 07:34

Well, I managed a very respectable 506 today. Peppermint tea and carbonated water until 7.30, then meatballs in tomato sauce with coleslaw and a sprinkle of mozzarella. Having managed to get back on the fasting wagon without too much pain, I’m going to try to find the power button for the cross trainer tomorrow.

Good luck for today HLBug, hope your df sails through.

Hockneypool · 07/01/2019 08:10

Reporting in for a Monday fast day. Weather is foul here, still pitch black at 8 am and on the wet and windy side. Off to Glasgow in an hour so hope it’s calmer inland.

Plan is no food until this evening but taking yogurt and berries with me just in case..

Hope all goes well with your dad Bug.

Welcome back Hic and Pumper - I’m a returner too

Anyone else fasting today?

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2019 08:27

Well done HIC
That was a good FD to start back after the hols.

You'll have a great new ring collection to enjoy, granny
as well as your freedom from sugar addiction
Just tough out these last few days and once the week is up it should get significantly easier

Best exercise to help regulate your insulin metbaolism - and improve cardio fitness - is HIIT
Probably easiest for you to start your run with some sprint intervals,
but if you belong to a gym then the company in an HIIT spin or a pump class often helps keep you motivated

If pushed for time, then add the HIIT Fat Blasts - just 2-5 mins on 3-5 days per week, at home or in the park or gym, see 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 OP

Welcome back pumper

Once you reach goal, or if you decide to pause again, I recommend everyone has a definite maintenance plan to avoid undoing their hard work.

Good luck on your FD, Hockney, pumper and all the other Monday fasters

I'm having an FD too - I meant to yesterday, but postponed when I found the gym were holding their monthly brunch
I did spin and 60 mins free weights yesterday, so that delic brunch hit the spot

Off to the gym now for body styling class, basically bodyweight exercises

OP posts:
JcHcks · 07/01/2019 08:32

Hey everyone this is my first day of fasting. Question, do you have to include tea (milk and 2 sugars) within the 500 calories?

OohMrDarcy · 07/01/2019 09:32

Morning all

Welcome JCHcks - yes definitely, and if possible I'd recommend you don't have the sugar at all on a FD - It will make you hungrier I suspect

alltalknobaby · 07/01/2019 09:40

Yes Jc, you include everything. Are you using MyFitnessPal to track? It really helps. The first day is the hardest. Good luck!

No FD here for me, I scuppered myself by making the OH cook tonight and he's doing something non-FD friendly. So Tuesday and Thursday for me this week.

Best of luck to your DF bug 🤞🏻

RosaPalma · 07/01/2019 10:57

Hi all, do you mind if I join you? I successfully lost about 7 kg on this thread a few years ago but it has slowly crept up again and has taken a real hit over the Christmas season with the result that this morning when I jumped on the scale I had hit an all time high of 86.4 kg Shock. I have actually gained 3kgs since my last weigh in in early December. I am so cross with myself. I am 5'6" so this puts me firmly into the obese category and that needs to be tackled. I know two weeks of intermittent fasting will make a big dent in the festive weight gain but I really need to do much better than that. So I am setting an initial goal of my pre festive weight of 83.2kg and then onto 80kg with the aim of making my way towards 75kg . I can do this. Nothing really planned for today yet but likely to have prawns and zucchini this evening and I will throw some celery, onion, spinach and broccoli into a pot to make a nice green soup. With a few coffees and herbal teas that should see me around the 500 for today. Now to put on my positive (but stretchy) pants on and get on with it.

mickeymacca · 07/01/2019 11:08

hows it going Borris and fellow fasters? Hi Rosa your dinner sounds lovely hope you get off to a good start. So my FD is going to plan so far... school run then home to blitz the house as have a day off. Just sat down to peanut butter on toast (very carefully weighed out) This is going to last me til dinner around 6 or 7pm so I've used a massive 315 calories but its well worth it as I'm really enjoying it and its going to give me a nice energy boost to get the house done. Also I have a bit of PMT so its giving me a healthier carb boost than what I would usually be eating!

snailhunter · 07/01/2019 11:57

Hello all! Yes, I don't know why I couldn't remember it was you giving the self-care advice bcf but then again I do have problems remembering my kids' names these days...

Hello to newbies and returners! I recognise a few names pumper and Hic. I'm fasting today - am working out of office all day so much easier. Doing fine on two coffees with a splash of milk each after a fun weekend with my sister, who is going back to her home country tomorrow, which makes me very sad. Hey ho, such is our global lifestyle these days!

Pumperthepumper · 07/01/2019 12:24

Thanks BCF, good advice.

Does anyone do a Monday/Thursday fast? I used to do Monday/Wednesday, which I liked because it got it over with in half the week, but my week has changed since last time and I tend to meet up with people on Wednesdays now. Does it make any difference?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 07/01/2019 12:30

afternoon everyone, been a hectic few days in which I fell completely off the 5:2 wagon Blush but happy to say I'm fully back on track as of today! Will go back and read the last couple of pages of the thread at some point but well done to all those with SVs and NSVs and welcome to any newbies Smile

NFD today and just had lunch, my fds this week are planned for tomorrow and friday.... good luck anyone fasting today

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