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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
redsummershoes · 04/01/2019 19:53

kitchen closed at around 700
next fd monday or tuesday

BigChocFrenzy · 04/01/2019 20:36

Well done on an excellent 1st FD, Scarlet
Yes, "real" food is much more satisfying, on an FD or indeed NFD

Rotten luck about your foot
If you are frustrated wrt exercise, you can always do some upper body weights sitting down - even use small bottles of water or cans - and abs exercises on the floor

e.g. front raise, side raise, shoulder press, bench press, biceps, tricep curls
situps, crunches

Well done on your FD, redsummer, MrD and on your mini, bug

That's good with the water, MrD
You're getting back into your good habits which worked so well before

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/01/2019 20:37

Busy hands are always a good idea, redsummer to avoid evening temptation, especially on FDs

OP posts:
mickeymacca · 04/01/2019 21:57

hi I'm sloping back here very redfaced....I don't know why I stopped doing 5:2 when it was working for me but anyhoo I'm back and in the zone. Managed 2 FD's this week one Wednesday and one today. Both went really well and I'm feeling positive after reading through the thread and seeing you all sticking with it

BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2019 08:10

Welcome back, mickey
and well done on your 2 FDs
Don't worry, you've returned before you can have put much on again

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 05/01/2019 08:30

Morning all,

Weighed in this morning and it's a total of 4lb down for me for week 1 (though it's been 4 days really). Am really really pleased with that start.

Good luck to anyone else weighing in!

Welcome back Mickey, don't worry - I'm a returner too. The main thing as I see it is we are back and trying again and looking to find ways to avoid what made us stop last time.

HLBug · 05/01/2019 11:47

Brilliant MrD that's a great SV!

I weighed in at 9st dead this morning. So the top of happy weight. Few more weeks of good behaviour and I'll be back to the mid / bottom end of happy weight in no time. 8st 10lb is my nicest place to be.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2019 12:08

Brilliant start, MrD
You're on your way !

Well done on your SV too, Bug
It's a good position to be in, just after the long holiday season ended
You'll soon be back in the middle of Happy Weight Range

OP posts:
Stircrazyschoolmum · 05/01/2019 12:52

Hello newbies and welcome back Mickey

FD on Weds went well, had a M&S lasagne with salad for tea. Did another yesterday that was more of a mini due to kids still being off and an excess of after eights and biscuits still floating round the house, but next week things will get back to normal.

Any how.. I weighed myself this morning now totm has bogged off and I’ve lost a 1lb! I’m sitting at 9.3 which Is giving me a BMI of just over 21 so I’m a very happy bunny.. I don’t think I ever lost weight at Xmas before and I certainly haven’t deprived myself.

I think the trick now is not too get complacent with maintenance so I’m going to stick around on the thread and cheer everyone else on. I’d miss you all if I left now!

Well done bug and mrD on your SV’s... a great way to start 2019.
Keep going anyone doing a weekend FD, they can be really effective as they stop you tucking into all the weekend ‘treats’.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2019 13:39

Well done on your SV, stir and excellent BMI
Losing over the long holiday is brilliant !

You can also check that your waist (at the narrowest point, about 2" above your navel) is comfortably less than half your height.
If so, you are within Happy weight Range 😀

several of us posting here are on maintenance.
I find 2 FDs @ 800 cals works for me - that's quite popular
or 6:1 with a single 500 FD

(Longterm) Maintenance:
If you return to your old WOE, you return to your old weight & waist

  • Keep up some form of regular fasting
  • Weigh regularly, at least weekly If you exceed Happy Range, return immediately to full 5:2
  • NO snacks or grazing, ever
  • Keep within NHS alcohol limits
  • Keep sweet / junky / alcohol treats to sensible amounts, total within about 20% of weekly calories
  • Drink lots of water
  • Eat lots of veg of different colours, but no more than 2 portions fruit daily
  • Regularly include beans, lentils, peas, plain yoghurt, nuts / seeds.
  • Have fasting breaks for vacation, but keep good habits and before you start, note in your calendar the day you will return to plan and have your next FD.
OP posts:
Borris · 05/01/2019 16:39

I’m late to the party but doing my first 2019 FD - although I did do NYE on Monday as working.

Planning to get back to regular B2bs on a mon and tues. will do my first post Christmas weigh in on Wednesday. I know if I weigh now to find out my gain I will lose motivation. If I’m back in the FD habit then I will do better.

So far FD going well. Was at work this am and busy so survived on 2 cups of tea. Had a light lunch and then planning a weight watchers 300 cal dinner plus yoghurt. I’ll be nearer 600 than 500 but that’s ok for this week I feel. Next week will be b2b 650s

Good luck and keep going any other sat fasters. Weirdly I’m quite enjoying today so far. It’s nice to be officially off sweet junk

mickeymacca · 05/01/2019 16:52

thanks all for the welcome. Well done stir thats amazing! I've printed myself a little reward chart to lose my 20lbs with (non-food) rewards at 5, 10, 15 and 20lbs. I think I'll be fighting TOTM weight for this Monday weigh in but I know that the week after it'll be a good drop if I don't see it on the scale Monday

mickeymacca · 05/01/2019 16:56

Borris why do you think B2B's work for you? I've tried them before and not sure if I prefer them or not! Is it a case of getting it over and done with or just works out better that way for you?

Borris · 05/01/2019 20:11

A reward chart is a good idea Mickey. I might join you.

I think b2bs suit me for a number of reasons. The main is that dd spends mon and tues at her dads and so I prefer to fast when she's not around as at 8 I don't want her thinking about dieting. I do longer work days which keep me busy and not thinking about eating on these days.

But I also find the extra 150cals so much easier. I tend to have 150-200 for lunch - a poached egg on Danish toast or a cup a soup and toast plus a satsuma which leaves 450-500 for dinner. That's easily a veg stir fry or 350ish ready meal with room for yoghurt. I find I don't have to go to bed hungry on 650 cals

But then I guess the beauty of 5:2 is that you can tinker it to what suits your lifestyle Smile

OohMrDarcy · 05/01/2019 20:31

Evening all,

Sounds like everyone is starting the year strong!!
DS's party went well, and I didn't even have cake! Have had a good day, and am all ready for his birthday tomorrow now. Next FD is booked for Tuesday and I'm feeling good.

mickeymacca · 05/01/2019 21:07

Thanks borris yes the extra cals I’d forgotten that. I also don’t like to fast around my children but so far I’m getting away with it! Easier when they’re at school for sure. I work well with reward chartsSmile first reward is going to be a new houseplant Smile

Borris · 05/01/2019 21:16

Well done MrDarcy for avoiding cake I had a bad week when it was dds partyGrin

A houseplant sounds good Mickey. I might go with clothes as a reward. Tops rather than bottoms as I don't think my top half will change much more (but hoping for a shrinking bottom and thighs)

BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2019 22:37

a reward chart is a great idea, mickey
re b2b:
Some people like them; others find them too tough. Whatever works for you

How did the FD go today, Borris ?

A cake-free day; you're really serious, MrD

OP posts:
Borris · 05/01/2019 23:13

It was a pretty successful day thanks bcf. More of a 650 cal without being a b2b but don’t think that’s too bad as I’m NFD tomorrow and then b2b mon/tues. I’ve thought of this week as easing myself back in ... and then next week gets serious 🤓

GrannyPenny · 05/01/2019 23:33

Great idea about a reward chart Mickey. Going to get a jar and put my sweetie/sugary carb money into it and save up for a piece of gold to make myself a ring. Tomorrow going to keep my hands busy making a silver one with "stay strong" message on the inside.

Day 3 today of no sugary carbs. Today has not been pleasant but i've only myself to blame. Just counting down the time I can book my yoga class when it's released at midnight and take myself off to bed.

Night all.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2019 23:40

Well done Borris

and well done on the sugar front, granny
An exciting reward with the money saved is an excellent idea.
So is exercise

Reportedly it takes 6-7 days cold turkey for the pangs to die down
So stay focused and it will get much better
You only want to go through this once

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 06/01/2019 08:26

Haha you lot, I was just serving it out to every one and didn't do myself a bit... didn't occur to me and didn't fancy any when it did. This is a good thing.

Loving the reward chart idea, might do one myself for every 10lb (would be a fair few of them !)

Borris · 06/01/2019 09:46

Ooh granny. Do you make jewellery?

BigChocFrenzy · 06/01/2019 14:23

Remember we counted loss in elephant penises before, MrD 😂

but I'm sure you can think of a more practical / humane reward for every 10 lb, going up a ladder,
with a bigger reward after every 25lb

OP posts:
mickeymacca · 06/01/2019 17:17

grannypenny that sounds lovely would love to see a pic.... Borris I'm going to a B2B tomorrow are you too? Does anyone want to post their weights and heights and goal on here?