5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Can definitely recommend the cinema for a Fd - it was a total distraction for a few hours. I just had peppermint tea to drink.

Just under 2 lbs down after first fd. Now the challenge is to eat well and sensibly today whilst at home sorting out my office and planning January’s work.
Good luck fasters

Friday FD it is then, I can go for one meal and have it before we go out - just have the water once out, should work quite well.

Well done Hockney - keep it up

I like the idea of damp January! I don't drink a lot either, alltalk, and Christmas is one of the very few occasions (the other being holidays abroad) where I will drink a glass of wine or so every evening! Because of that, I always like to have a break from booze afterwards, as I feel my body needs it.

I'm actually feeling great today so far! So nice to not be full! We finished off the Christmas cheese last night which meant I was totally ready for no eating today...

The tip to eat raw veg is a God send. So far, I've eaten a celery stick and 2 carrot and feel OK. I weighed myself and put on 4lbs over Christmas.

Well done on your SV, hockney
You and MrD have had an encouraging start to 2019

boo raw veg like carrot or celery is great, munched very thoroughly
Cucumber & broccoli are also good standbys

just remember not to add anything like dip, mayo, hummus etc, which are calorie bombs

For the main FD meal, I also prefer raw veg
My standard FD meal is grilled salmon strips or baked prawns, with a huge mixed salad, dressed with lemon and a teasp of olive oil

Kitchen closed at 550 or thereabouts, hooray. Feeling good but bloody freezing! Fully intending to collapse on sofa with hot water bottle once kids are in bed.

Finishing up on about 750 cal - couple of milky coffees saw me through until a small portion of spaghetti bolognese at dinner time. Might try for another FD tomorrow as the office canteen is closed this week and DH bought me an M&S low cal meal for tea tonight which I didn't end up eating.

How have all the other fasters today gotten on? Feels gooooood doesn't it

First FD over with. I nibbled on raw veg all day and then had lamb stew for tea. I'd say its nearer 600 cals. I'm currently contemplating which arm to chew off first. Time for a bath to distract myself whilst I count the hours till breakfast. That's of I have any arms left to make the breakfast with

Evening all.

I'm doing my first fast day tomorrow.

My blood sugars are normal, but I'm in my early 40's, BMI of 40, and my dad is Type II diabetic and has just gone onto insulin so I'd like to not reach that stage.

I've desperately tried to lose weight for years and ended up 6 stones heavier than I was when I started my first diet.

However the main problem has all been in my head so it's all been futile.

I've been ruled by an overwhelming urge to over-eat and no matter how much I wanted to lose weight, the urge to over-eat always won and I could never understand why (which led to a constant cycle of yo-yo-dieting) and I would lose weight, then gain 1-3lbs per week once I fell off the wagon until I got back on it.

In October I went to see a hypnotherapist and I have no idea what she said to me but after just one session that overwhelming, all-consuming urge to eat as much as I could has gone. She advised me to spend a couple of months getting my disordered eating back into an order (3 meals, 2 snacks) and eat what I want and then start making small changes once I felt in control - and now that time has come.

I've put on 2.5lbs since I saw her which is (to me) awesome because I can easily whack 1-3lbs per week on when I'm "not on a diet".

I've read about the health benefits of IF and as I think my diet is pretty balanced and better than it was, I'd like to use it to try and assist in weight loss and rid my life of sugar.

I work from home now, which is great, as if I feel myself getting tired through the day I can log off for a nap and work around my hunger.

Probably going to do Wednesday and Fridays.

boo for future reference the Options 40 cal hot choc drinks are great to help you get through a FD evening - particularly when the whether is this cold. BCF also recommends brushing your teeth ASAP after dinner and, as simple as that sounds, having a minty fresh mouth really does put you off eating anything further.

welcome scarlet
fd's are not the easy option but it teaches valuable lessons: like not eating a meal is fine and you don't have to catch up.

I'm planning my next fd tomorrow. cantine is closed, so no fish&chips to tempt me.

Blimey you lot have been busy, tonnes of posts to catch up with.

Happy new year snail, you will smash your new goal. Hope your FD went well.

Massive well done to all the fasters:
43, Mr Darcy, redSummer, Hockney, Bug, Billy, NotReally and snail and anyone else I’ve missed out.

Boo - Welcome to the thread, this way of life is amazing you can have your cake and eat it. I’ve been on this thread for 2.5 years now and came over off the back of 8 week BSD also by Michael Mosley. I lost a stone on 8W BSD then went on to loose another 3 on 5:2 and have been happily maintaining for 11 months. It’s changed my life honestly I did all the diets previous and had some good success with most of them but for me it was the maintenance I just couldn’t handle until I found this way of life.
Also I’ve found the health benefits amazing and have not been poorly since the day I started 5:2. My family keep coming down with colds and I sometimes think I’m coming down with something but have managed to doge every single bug so far.

Also Boo, well done on nailing your first FD, promise it will get easier once you get into the swing of things.

MrDarcy - Congratulations on your SV

Hockey- Also Congratulations on your loss.

Scarlet - Welcome to the thread, as a previous fellow yo-yo dieter I can relate. Your in a good place over here at 5:2 the support on this board is incredible. Good luck for your FD tomorrow.

First FD of the year done and dusted today, I do plan to do a full 2nd FD on Saturday to try to get rid of the extra couple of Xmas pounds. I’m not doing dry January as I’ve not had a drink since July and intend to have a couple at a party next week. But not too many as I get drunk very easily these days.

Good luck to all the fasters for tomorrow.

Happy New Year everyone! Hoping 2019 will see me regain good eating habits so back here for support and accountability.

The no snacking rule I have cracked, it's second nature. Win.

My nemesis however is sugar and i've been comfort eating sweets instead of meals for months. Not weighed myself for ages (enabling denial), but galvanised back into action after seeing the full extent of my flabbiness reflected in the mirrors at gym class this morning.

Plan is to get back to daily MFP-ing and eat like a normal person.

Well done on an excellent 1st FD, boo

and well done too, bug, snail, duck

Welcome, Scarlet 🙂
I sounds like you have got control over your eating, so now is a good time to start losing weight healthily.

Good luck on your 1st FD tomorrow
I recommend the OP "How to Start" section for info, but post whenever you need support or advice

Welcome back, granny
breaking the snack habit is a great win

Now to work on cutting the sugary crap
and boosting veg & protein for a healthier diet.

Can you do moderation, say 2:5 crap - have ONE moderate portion on 2 days per week, none the other days -
or do you need to go cold turkey ?
Depends on whether you may be a "sugar addict" rather than a greedy person like me (for whom moderation now works)

Tips and Strategies to Help You Quit Sugar

https://www.thediabetescouncil.com/handle-sugar-cravings-recover-sugar-addiction/

Eating a bit of the food we crave is mainstream cravings “wisdom.”
That can be terrible advice for sugar addicts, who are highly sensitive to priming.

Thank you for that very interesting article on sugar BigChoc. It's a bit scary that I can identify with so much in it.

Cold turkey it is - I can't 5:2 it, no willpower.

Will head to shops tomorrow to buy some liquid B complex which the article recommends to help with the cravings.

Feeling like i've hit the bottom of a downward spiral that I can begin to find my way out of and so very pleased I came back here.

Morning all,

Checking in for a Friday FD, who's with me? DC are off to their dad's over night so should be an easy one - I hope. Planning to have one meal just before going out to the cinema tonight, have kept 100 cals or so spare in case I need something at lunchtime.

fd today
so far had a large mug of tea with milk and a large glass of water. dinner will be fish with spinach and potatos. a cup of marigold bouillon for lunch.

good luck friday fasters!

Good luck Friday fasters and well done to everyone who fasted yesterday. I've just been for a gorgeous run in the winter sunshine - absolutely beautiful.

Hello to newbies scarlet and boo! Best of luck with your first FD today, scarlet. Everyone has their own ways of getting through the FDs but one of the most useful mindsets I've found was posted by someone on this thread (really sorry but I totally forget who!). She said that she regarded FDs as 'self-care' days which I think is so great - thinking of fasting as a thing to make you feel better rather than worse.

I always try to do that now. I make any food I'm eating on an FD is lovely and tastes great - my favourite is a bowl of full fat Greek yog and berries. And I try to do nice things for myself on FDs that don't involve food - long bath with nice bath oil, snuggle on sofa with favourite book/TV show, dog walk somewhere beautiful. I find that treating FDs as a nice thing rather than a punishment makes them go much quicker.

Hope the Friday fasters are doing ok? I'm onto second bottle of water and nothing else has passed my lips as yet.

I've had a nose in the freezer and I'm going for 2x thai salmon fishcakes for dinner with a little sweet chilli sauce to dip in. I have enough cals for all the sauce, but I'm thinking I'm better off having no more than half of it and then I've got my 100 cals spare for something at lunch if needed.

Another recommended mantra for FDs Scarlet is " I can have it tomorrow" .... so anything you feel you are depriving yourself of, you aren't - you can have it tomorrow, if you still want it - which, I don't know about anyone else but probably 8/10 times I don't!

Good luck today, MrD, red

and good luck with cutting out sugar, granny - I suspected from your earlier posts that you might qualify as a "sugar addict"

snail It was probably me, recommending that we look on FDs as self-care days 🙂
We should have as nutritious food as possible on FDs, with masses of veg and water, no alcohol or junk, especially sugary crap.

I have a hand & foot massage, 40 mins, on one of my weekly FDs
and a lovely walk or jog along the Rhine (providing it isn't raining !)

My main meal is usually at a very nice restaurant - my fav grilled salmon fillet strips with a hige salad

and of course, an early night, to get plenty of sleep.

Hi all

This is such a nice welcoming thread.

First FD done and almost dusted - there's no reason at all for me to cave in and spoil things and I still have room for a Pink Lady apple later on which will bring me in at 623.

I haven't had any cravings or weak moments. Sure I've been hungry but like someone suggested up thread I just kept saying "it's only for today".

I had an Exante porridge for breakfast (revolting) and an exante bar for lunch (also revolting) as I thought they would just be easier as I wouldn't need to think, and yes they are easier but I think now I'd rather have proper food so I had some prawns for tea.

I've got a cast on my foot at the moment (fell over before Christmas) and will be in plaster until the end of January so I can't drive and I'm reliant on other people but I will ask DH to run me up to the supermarket before Wednesday and buy the stuff to put a big salad together.

Evening all

FD complete, and a very delicious one it was too. Loads of water drunk and now I'm getting ready for cinema with a friend (water in hand).

Scarlett, well done on finishing your first ever FD! It will only get easier from now on.

dinner is in the oven. but it has been good so far.
folding a mountain of holiday laundry kept my hands busy.

Ended up doing a Mini today, finishing on about 950 cals. Happy with that and with yesterday it takes me to a B2B average of 850 per day which is fine for me in maintenance land. I didn't step on the scales last week so no idea what holiday etc gain was...will have a look tomorrow and see what still needs to be done.