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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/01/2019 18:27

Grrr stir you spoke too soon Smile I've just had two small chunks of bread with my soup so more like 800 cals.... I'm running a bath now to distract myself, wish me luck for the rest of the day. Hope others are doing better than me!!!

Oh and I'd avoid the scales while totm is here Smile

OohMrDarcy · 02/01/2019 18:39

Evening ,

How has everyone's fasts gone?

I'm pretty confident I've smashed mine. Slight hitch of some fudge nearly ruined all, but realised what I was doing after a single small bite and put the rest away for another day!

I adore fudge, only let myself buy it at Christmas so I'm amazed .... I didn't even feel bad or like I was missing out, just put it away again.

516 for the day, including the fudge (estimate obviously)

Very very happy with that

redsummershoes · 02/01/2019 19:39

kitchen closed at around 700 (that chocolate mountain will not eat itself so I had a small piece after dinner)
feel a lot less bloated already.
and veg, just steamed without butter actually taste nice.

alltalknobaby · 02/01/2019 20:14

Kitchen closing on 922 here - I thought I might struggle today so I'm okay with this. It was all healthy - veg, casserole, boiled egg and a ready meal this evening, plus I got out for a walk (even though I know not to take those cals off) so I'm feeling okay. Haven't managed to shift my headache all day so bed soon for me.

Good luck to all those doing dry January. I did sober October and vowed never again 😆 I don't drink that much and it seemed a bit pointless to deny myself, I didn't see any benefits at all.

Well done to all the fasters today 👍🏻

BooRad · 02/01/2019 20:26

I've been thinking about doing this for a while. How much have you all lost and how long has it taken?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2019 20:28

Well done, MrD - great 1st FD back and also 43, red, alltalk starting of 2019 so well

How did it go, stir ? I hope you found something edible for dinner

I've finished my FD too - 800 cals as I'm on maintenance

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/01/2019 21:09

Well done bcf alltalk red and mrd
Welcome boo and good luck with it, I've been fasting since end of Feb and up until start of Xmas (!) I had lost 35lb.....

OohMrDarcy · 02/01/2019 21:20

Well done all - lots of very successful FDs here tonight!

Welcome boo - I first started 52 about 3 and a half ish years ago - that time I lost 4 stone in 6 months and health wise felt SO good. Skin clearer, asthma improved etc - unfortunately I have had lots going on emotionally in the meantime and got out of the habit. I'm now back and ready to smash it long term.

BooRad · 02/01/2019 21:25

Wow. That sounds amazing. I have 3 stone to lose. I've tried ww and sw but to no avail. I'll have a read of the links.

redsummershoes · 02/01/2019 21:26

I don't do it for weightloss but for health reasons (liver).
been doing it since may.
lost a few inches of waist, skin improved, ibs almost vanished.

Hockneypool · 02/01/2019 21:40

Reporting in with a good Fd - about 600 calories but managed to last all day until about 7 pm. I’ve not managed that before so feeling chuffed.

Looking forward to breakfast!

Well done fellow fasters

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2019 23:16

Well done, hockney

Welcome, boo 😀
The "How to Start" section in the OP has all you need to know.

It's pretty simple: 2 FDs (VLCD), 5 NFDs maintenance

On the FDs, no alcohol or junk whatsoever, i.e no cake, biscuits, choc, crisp etc

On NFDs, try to keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits,
NEVER snack / graze between meals,
sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal,
lots of water & veg,
cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks even diet ones

OP posts:
BooRad · 02/01/2019 23:24

Thank you. That's really useful, I shall start tomorrow.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/01/2019 07:10

Good luck boo keep posting on here for support and really try and stick to the no snacking rule, it really has changed my eating habits....

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/01/2019 07:13

Well done hockney
Nfd today and its an awkwatd one as I'm meeting a friend for some glasses of wine and a catch up early evening, so working out when to eat is tricky... I will skip breakfast then have something around 4pm to put me on I think then who knows what afterwards Hmm good luck Thurs fasters Smile

billysboy · 03/01/2019 07:26

My first FD today I am going to skip breakfast plan to eat when I get back from meetings around 3

HLBug · 03/01/2019 07:38

First 2019 FD - let's do this 💪🏻

redsummershoes · 03/01/2019 07:49

good luck, boo

it was surprisingly easy for me to start. and very interesting. have never counted calories before but had to look at that to see what 500cal look like.
raw veg is your friend. yummy and filling. eggs are great lean protein.

alltalknobaby · 03/01/2019 08:35

Good luck Thursday fasters. Welcome boo and good luck. The first day is the hardest but you'll never have a day as hard as that again.

Made the mistake of getting on the scales this morning (totm). Going to pretend it didn't happen and enjoy my NFD today 😬

BigChocFrenzy · 03/01/2019 09:06

Good luck on your 1s FD, billy, boo
Post whenever you need support

Good luck, bug

That's right, alltalk never get on the scales during totm
The changed hormones cause temporary water retention, which can be 1-8lb
The FD after the end of totm will zap that water

OP posts:
snailhunter · 03/01/2019 09:18

Hey boo, nice to see you. I started 5: 2 this time last year to lose a stone. Lost it and am still here maintaining and getting rid of a few pounds gained over Christmas.

I'm more concerned with being healthy and strong than being super-slim, but as I'm now in perimenopause, I need to make sure that I don't put on weight I can't lose once I hit actual menopause. So I use this way of eating to stay a healthy weight. It works brilliantly for me because I hate cutting out or restricting entire food groups like carbs and a diet like that would just not suit me long term. I like to eat everything!

OohMrDarcy · 03/01/2019 09:42

Morning all - scales 2.5lb down this morning after yesterdays FD, very happy with that. I know will probably be at least half water as I know I hadn't been drinking enough.

Planning in another FD and have Friday or Saturday as options. Neither ideal so need to think it out. Friday the DC are at their dads so theoretically a good day, but am going to cinema in evening with a mate.... as long as she doesn't want to eat out then that will work. If not Saturday is an option, but DS's birthday party (actual birhday Sunday) so I think unlikely to work tbh..... thinking I'll go for Friday and encourage mate to not want to eat out!

Notreallyhappy · 03/01/2019 09:55

Hi all...hope your Christmas & new year was good.
FD #1 today.
Planning a damp january not dry I have1 night out planned for the month & am planning to not drink in the week.

Have a good one all. Xx

BigChocFrenzy · 03/01/2019 10:08

Good luck, not really

well done on your SV, MrD
Losing stored water weight is also good, as too much retained water can raise blood pressure

The cinema FD sounds much better than the weekend, which is obviously not feasible.
Remember not to nibble in the cinema - just have unflavoured water if you like something to hold

If you want to eat out, you could make that your one meal of the FD and choose somewhere with a salad bar - just have a tbsp / teasp of vinaigrette dressing
Or a place that serves salad with ûnbreaded fish / chicken / steak strips

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/01/2019 10:10

A Damp January 😂 sounds a good compromise, NotReally
Try to keep within NHS guidelines on your night out and at weekends if you drink then

OP posts: