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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 31/12/2018 20:21

See you on the 2nd, visitor

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/12/2018 23:39

Frohes neues Jahr aus Deutschland ! 🎆

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/01/2019 00:10

Happy new year everyone and very best 5:2 wishes for 2019 Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/01/2019 00:10

Oh well done borris

Borris · 01/01/2019 00:24

Happy New Year fellow 5:2-ers 😀

OohMrDarcy · 01/01/2019 13:49

Happy New year fasters! Lets make this the year we all smash it!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/01/2019 14:49

Come join the fasting gang tomorrow - everyone welcome ! 😀

OP posts:
HLBug · 01/01/2019 14:59

Happy New Fasting Year everyone!!

02 Jan is another public holiday here in Scotland - not sure why, possibly because NYD is a pretty big deal for us and for some generations bigger than Christmas. As tradition dictates, we're having a massive steak pie for dinner with all the trimmings. And wine Smile

So, good luck to those fasting tomorrow - I'll be with you again as of the 3rd Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 01/01/2019 21:45

sounds a fantastic night, bug Enjoy !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2019 07:31

First FD of 2019 for me today
Phew, after a 3-day feast, I need it

Come on, let's get in the 2019 fasting swing ! 😀

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 02/01/2019 08:07

Morning all

I'm in BCF, and looking forward to it!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/01/2019 08:13

Fd for me also... hope everyone has a successful first Fd of 2019. bug sounds wonderful, enjoy Smile

OohMrDarcy · 02/01/2019 08:54

43, we are starting as we mean to end the year - smashing it! I have my water in hand an my food planned.

alltalknobaby · 02/01/2019 09:01

I have woken up with my period, a headache and nausea. Today might not be my most successful FD but I'll give it a go! One pint of water and one cup of tea so far.

Happy new year everyone 😊

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2019 09:45

Right, that's MrD, 43, alltalk & I fasting today 😀
Anyone else ?

alltalk I recommend you glug a teasp Marmite (regard it as medicine) on FDs, especially with totm.
This replenishes salt & other minerals that might be low and causing the headache
It also boosts B vitamins.

Drink plenty of water all day too

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 02/01/2019 10:18

Happy new year everyone hope you all had a great Christmas.

Visitor - It’s good to see you back on the thread.

Emcla - Good to see you too, hope your FD went well.

Well done Borris with getting your FD in early.

AllTalk hope your mini went well.

43 well done on your FD.

MrDarcy - I remember you, good to see you back. Good luck for your FD today.

StirCrazy- Good luck for your FD today, don’t worry any damage done can be reversed really quickly.

Bug - Enjoy your dinner and we will see you back tomorrow.

AllTalk- Hoping for a easy day for you today.

Wow seriously impressed with how many of you fasted.

I fasted Xmas eve and last Saturday. Everyone ignored my memo of not wanting chocolate and I ended up with more than ever but I haven’t scoffed them yet. 3.4 lbs on so I’m happy with that and I intend to get back to TDEE today cut the rubbish out and crack on into a normal week.

I just want to remind everyone to take a bit of time out for themselves each week, a bit of self care goes a long way.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2019 10:39

Keep drinking water, MrD

You'll soon be back in the swing, duck

I'm off now for a jog by the Rhine.

OP posts:
redsummershoes · 02/01/2019 10:40

Frohes Neues!
Happy New Year

back from staying with relatives who use butter in copious amounts on everything. and plenty of 'berliner' during a nye party.

so - on a fast day today to get rid of of butter and stodge.

good luck everyone!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2019 11:53

aha, another in Germany
Join the fasting gang !

OP posts:
Hockneypool · 02/01/2019 12:56

I’m fasting today too - happy New Year from Scotland. Feels good to be part of a gang!

Just coffee and yoga have so far! And loads of water too. Off to the cinema to distract me this afternoon.

Borris · 02/01/2019 13:00

Good luck fasters. I’m doing first 2019 fast on sat and then back to my normal mon-tues b2bs.

snailhunter · 02/01/2019 13:03

Afternoon all and Happy New Year! I thought I'd find this thread quite active...

Well, my plan to do my FDs up until Christmas backfired spectacularly with arrival of period and associated migraine, and then my sister who lives abroad arrived for Christmas unexpectedly early on the 18th rather than the 23rd -- I haven't seen her for three years and there was much celebrating! Have had an absolutely lovely few weeks off, still keeping up the running and not hugely overindulging but very much looking forward to getting back to fasting. It's also my 5:2 anniversary week - I started this time last year at 10st 13 and am now 10st 3lb following Christmas blowout - so I've kept off that pesky stone. Not bad!

My goals for this year are pretty simple, in the spirit of the more simple and achievable the goal, the more you're likely to hit it: stay below 10 stone (ideally around 9st 10), and crack maintenance. First FD tomorrow as the kids are back at school - actually looking forward to it! Am not drinking in January either, following many wine-filled evenings with siblings...

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2019 15:36

Good to have you in the gang, hockney

Welcome back, Borris, snail
You'll soon be back in the swing

Anyone else joining snail on Dry January ?
I might do as well (but as I only drink about 2 units per week, even on holiday, it makes v little difference !)

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/01/2019 16:53

Gah that rubbish alltalk hope you've managed okay?

We certainly are mrd

Ooh snail it sounds like you've had a lovely time with your sister, that's far more important sometimes.

Today has been v v difficult and I've had to have an extra coffee to get me through so with planned dinner I'm coming in at around 635 but I'll take that today.

No dry January for me, I'm not strong enough Blush it did cross my mind for about a second this morning as it was all over breakfast telly bit then I remembered I'm out with a friend tomorrow evening and out for dinner and cocktails on Friday! Eek!! Good luck snail bcf and any others Grin

Stircrazyschoolmum · 02/01/2019 17:32

snail I’ll join you for dry Jan as best I can. Well done for sticking it out today 43 it does feel a bit harder today than last year but I’m hoping to get back into the swing again once kids are back next week.

Just landed back in UK.. I’ve got around 400 calories for dinner but no food so it might be a ready meal!

It’s totm so I’m going to take the scales with a pinch of salt when I get home and do a proper weigh in next week. Hoping the damage isn’t too great though. Hmm