Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
visitorthedog · 29/12/2018 19:58

Hi everyone, wishing you all a happy Christmas! I’m back with my head down and tail between my legs (well it would be but there’s no thigh gap available!).

I’m quite fed up with myself and ready to wave 2018 goodbye and good riddance! I need to get back on the wagon quickly!

emcla · 29/12/2018 23:38

I’ll be hopefully back on track on Monday. Back to work then and find fd’s easier when I’m busy at work. Happy new year everyone

BigChocFrenzy · 29/12/2018 23:43

Welcome back, visitor, emcla
Have a Happy 2019
why not start off with an FD on 2 Jan - not on 1 Jan if you are celebrating NYE and eating / drinking after 9pm

OP posts:
Borris · 30/12/2018 08:36

I’m popping in to wish everyone a happy Christmas and New Year. Planning first post Christmas FD tomorrow. I’m working NYE anyway so won’t be too bad. And then either NYD or 2nd January. Not quite decided as I’m home on 1st jan and home FDs are always tough!!

alltalknobaby · 30/12/2018 08:38

Hope everyone had a lovely Christmas. Mini for me today - I feel like my system needs a reset after all the overindulgence so I'm actually looking forward to it.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2018 10:02

Good luck, alltalk

and good luck for tomorrow, Borris

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/12/2018 15:29

Hi everyone and welcome back visitor
Fd today and I've been food shopping and now I'm prepping what I can for our buffet tomorrow, made cheesecake and Mediterranean pasta salad thus far, I'm so hungry though but telling myself I will have it all tomorrow :-) good luck with your nye Fd borris and good luck for your mini alltalk

alltalknobaby · 30/12/2018 16:15

If a FD is below 500 and a mini is 850-1,000 what do you call a day of 700/800? A bad FD or a good mini? I don't suppose it really matters, maybe it just means you have to be extra good on your non-FDs?

Finding today a bit of a struggle but like 43 I'm telling myself I can have it tomorrow.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/12/2018 18:19

Not sure alltalk but it's good going Grin

I'm coming in at about 560cals, dh is proper getting on my wick today though so I'm hoping I don't cave in and fall into a glass of wine!!!! Confused I think I'm just hangry. Next fd is on the calendar for the 2nd...

alltalknobaby · 30/12/2018 19:38

I get some SERIOUS hanger 43, me and OH have almost come to blows numerous times today and he always says "oh just eat a sandwich / mince pie / etc" which annoys me even more 😑 Be strong! 💪🏻

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/12/2018 19:44

Oh God alltalk that would wind me up no end! I'm staying strong, we've got this today and can let our hair down a bit tomorrow eh Wine

BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2018 19:47

Alltalk If 800 FDs are what work for you, then be careful on NFDs and see how you progress
We are all individuals and need to tweak things to find what works for our unique bod and life 😀

An alternative is 3 miniFDs per week, which loses about the same as 5:2 with 2 FDs of 500 cals
So e.g.
Mon+Wed+Fri have up to 1000 cals

With any FD or mini, the same rules those days:
No alcohol or sugary junk - cake, biscuits etc - and no savoury junk like pizza, deep-fried food or crisps

What helps most folks fasting:

+Have 1-3 meals, no snacks between
+Start each day with a glass of water and keep water by you all day to drink
+Each meal - Plenty of protein, masses of veg, small portions of starchy carbs, preferably wholegrains or boiled / baked potato
+Avoid fruit juice, dried fruit, most breakfast cereals
+Mid-morning and / or mid-afternoon, glug a teasp marmite (10 cals) like medicine, to avoid feeling weak or headachey

  • Keep busy and preferably not preeping food for others - DO NOT eat Dc leftovers ever
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2018 19:48

Not long to go, 43, alltalk

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 30/12/2018 20:06

ok - I'm back and keeping my head down. Its been so long I doubt anyone will remember me Blush

I may have fallen off the wagon massively, but I've still been selling the virtues of 5:2 - and have now managed to convert my sister and her husband who have been doing it successfully since late summer.

I've been really struggling with mindset and work being crazy this year. Personal stuff has died down finally (thought now I've said that obviously something new will happen!) . I've got a few days with the DC at their dads and without work to occupy my brain for the first time since forever so I'm using it to try and get my head in a good space. Lots of relaxing (much needed after this year), and mindfulness / meditation is happening.

If I'm going to make this a success this time I need to get my head sorted so I don't slip to emotional eating again.

2nd Jan - first FD of 2019, and it will be a successful fasting year, I have decreed!

alltalknobaby · 30/12/2018 20:54

Hi darcy! I'm hoping for a great 2019 too 💪🏻

Kitchen closing on 627. Off to bed before something falls into my mouth.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/12/2018 21:20

I remember you mrdarcy good luck for your first fd of 2019.

alltalk that's a very sensible idea and as dh has just made a cheese and pickled onion cheese topped roll with a side of doritos (rude!) I think I'm going to do the same!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2018 21:52

Welcome back, MrDarcy
I remember you, of course and that things in rl have been tricky for you

You did really well fasting before and also you went on brilliant long moonwalks etc - are those available nearby in Jan ?

Anyway, quite a few folk probably fasting on 2 January, so good luck for then and I'm rooting for you

Well done on your FD, Alltalk

43 - how did your FD go (or did you get derailed by the Doritos sarnie ?)

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 31/12/2018 07:26

Morning bcf yes i stayed strong and came in around 560cals, I went to bed and left dh with his sandwich Grin

going to skip breakfast and have light lunch then got friends coming for nye buffet and drinks.

Hope you all have a lovely nye Smile

Stircrazyschoolmum · 31/12/2018 07:39

Hi gang

Nipping in to wish everyone a Happy New Year, enjoy whatever you are up to tonight and then we’ll draw a collective line under it!!! Grin

I’m back in the UK on 2 Jan and hoping to join the mass FD (airport stress permitting). I’m starting to fear what the scales might say but feel confident I can correct any gains quite swiftly with the lovely support on this thread!

I love the last day of the year.. the new one is laid out ahead all bright and shiny with no opportunity to cock it up yet! GrinGrinGrin

Happy New Year and see you on the 2nd! xxxx

BigChocFrenzy · 31/12/2018 10:34

Well done, 43

See you with the fasting gang on 2 Jan, Stir

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 31/12/2018 13:13

oooh how lovely to see I've been remembered! waving hi to all!

Getting back walking is one of the things I want to do this year BCF - The moonwalk is a once a year thing and can't do this years date, but it shouldn't stop me getting out for lots of lovely long walks. I've really missed it and given the stresses of the last few years are dying down I'm hoping my mindset stuff will help me find the will. I've already been taking down decorations and tidying today (unheard of until I HAVE to normally). You are right of course that I did really well on this originally, 4 stone was lost ( and nearly 3.5 of that gained again unfortunately). Would love to get back to that place - I was so much healthier and I remember how clear my skin was etc... I've been focussing on drinking more water in the meantime as that has always been key for me.

I'm wishing everyone a happy and healthy 2019 and I'm plotting and planning to help make sure I can make my aim a success this year.

Borris · 31/12/2018 13:21

FD going better than expected here Smile

OohMrDarcy · 31/12/2018 14:55

Well done Borris, keep it going!

visitorthedog · 31/12/2018 17:29

Fast day of the 2nd sounds like a plan! I’m readying Michael Mosley’s new book to give me a blast of motivation too 🤞🏻

BigChocFrenzy · 31/12/2018 20:21

Good for you, Borris

Yes, keep glugging the water MrD that worked well for you, too

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread