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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 21/12/2018 09:01

Stay strong borris and Hmm to the coincidence!

Well done on your sv kapow Smile

Grrr flea how bloody frustrating but we'll done resisting the poo crumbs Envy

Excellent sv duck

Well I ate and drank far too much yesterday, there was no water in between alcohol and I came home with pizza and chips in hand Blush dh helped me eat it though... I surprisingly don't feel too bad today, so might try for a mini if I can

No more awful commuting on the rubbish trains until 7th Jan. ... oh the relief this morning Grin

Have a good day everyone

BigChocFrenzy · 21/12/2018 13:34

Well done, duck

A mini would be a good idea, 43 to give your tum time to recover before the next Christmas feast

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/12/2018 13:39

I've been on hols since yesterday, so no more commuting with 30+km cycling round trips

I had a totally lazy day off yesterday,
no jogging as the start of my hols was - naturally 🤔 - marked by continuous rain.

Today I did a fasted morning class at the gym,
a sensible healthy NFD planned today, with a 40 minute hand & foot message at 4pm, my usual end to the week Xmas Grin

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HLBug · 21/12/2018 13:57

Just checking in - Friday FD for me and probably the last one before Christmas. Had some soup and small piece of bread so far. No plans yet for dinner.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/12/2018 14:04

Good luck, bug

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BigChocFrenzy · 22/12/2018 10:24

I'm just about to have brunch at my fave cafe
Glorious sunny day and table looking out onto the Rhine 😀
Looking forward to an enjoyable walk afterwards

This afternoon will be pump and then either spin or a Rhine jog
Supper probably veg soup and raw carrot crackers

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Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/12/2018 11:44

Hope you had a lovely brunch bcf

Managed a mini and pleased to report a 1lb loss today Grin so that brings me to 35lbs off, just another 8/9 to lose in the new year.

Not sure when I'll get the chance to post before Xmas day so just wanted to say hope everyone has a wonderful Christmas,

BigChocFrenzy · 23/12/2018 11:49

Wow, well done 43 Star
35lb is a fantastic achievement and milestone !

Have a wonderful Christmas

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Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/12/2018 13:22

Thanks bcf I couldn't have done it without your amazing advice and support and the support of everyone else on this thread.... you nest of vipers Xmas Wink

MazDazzle · 23/12/2018 16:00

Well done 43! That’s absolutely fantastic. Grin

Had a mini FD today and came in at 650 cals. Kitchen closed. Working tonight and will go straight to bed once I’ve finished.

Friday was my fasting anniversary. 6 years! Proud of myself. This WOL is mine for keeps now. Grin

alltalknobaby · 23/12/2018 16:59

Wow 43 that's fantastic! And Maz that's inspirational. Hope I can do this for as long.

Mini for me today, had planned a full FD but wasn't sure how it was going pan out as I was having my sister's two DDs. Turns out having 3 is hard work 😂 so I'm aiming for sub-800.

Last one before Christmas so hoping I can enjoy it guilt-free.

Merry Christmas to one and all and I second the thanks to bcf and, in fact, all of you for your warmth and support 💕

BigChocFrenzy · 23/12/2018 22:04

Well done on your FD, Maz and Happy 5:2 anniversary
6 years is definitely veteran class !

That's fab you've found your lifetime WOL - mine too

How did the mini go today, alltalk ?

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quackingduck222 · 24/12/2018 10:12

43 - That’s absolutely fantastic what a amazing SV. You are going to have to change your name very soon.

Maz - Well done on your mini, great stuff. 6 years, holy moly that’s fantastic what a amazing achievement.

AllTalk - Hope your FD went well yesterday, under 800 still counts as a FD.

BCF - Hope you have a lovely few weeks off.

I’m going in for a FD today, never done a Monday before so it seems strange.

Hope everyone has a fantastic Christmas.

Just want to say a huge thanks to BCF for continuing with these threads and being a absolute wealth of knowledge and support.

Stircrazyschoolmum · 24/12/2018 15:00

Hi Guys

Apologies for not being about much recently, Christmas chaos got the better of me! Dropping in quickly to wish everyone a wonderful festive day tomorrow and to echo my thanks to BCF for managing these threads where I have met so many amazing posters and gained massive motivation, inspiration and support for my own weight loss journey.

Looking forward to correcting any indulgences with you guys in the New Year. xxx

BigChocFrenzy · 24/12/2018 17:19

Have a great Christmas, stir
and we'll see you again - promptly now ! - in the New Year

How's your FD going, duck ?
Monday is a very popular day for an FD - except when it's Christmas Eve Xmas Wink
It gives you extra time to prepare everything for Christmas and sets you up well to relax and enjoy tomorrow

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quackingduck222 · 24/12/2018 21:42

BCF - Yes it’s gone pretty well thanks. Times flown by so no issue at all today. Came in slightly over at 806 cals as my sausages were subbed for a different slightly higher calorie ones.

Happy Christmas StirCrazy, you’ve done amazing this year.

Merry Christmas everyone. Hope you all have some delicious food over the next few days.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/12/2018 08:09

Well done on your Christmas Eve FD, duck

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BigChocFrenzy · 25/12/2018 08:10

Happy Christmas, 5:2ers !
🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄

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HLBug · 25/12/2018 16:20

Merry Christmas everyone and Happy FEAST Day!!! Xmas GrinCakeXmas Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/12/2018 09:15

Well done on your Xmas eve fd duck and happy 5:2 anniversary maz that's awesome.

Hope everyone had a lovely indulgent day yesterday? Xmas GrinXmas Grin

I'm contemplating a fd or at least a mini today, I actually feel like my tummy needs it. It feels sore inside if that makes sense?
Feels wrong as it's boxing day but we have no plans (but busy tomorrow til new years eve) so it would just be eating for the sake of eating. Wish me luck!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/12/2018 12:36

Good luck, 43
Me too - having a mini today

This morning, i did 40 minutes weight-lifting, then a spin class
It's been closed 2 days, so I needed a good workout

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HLBug · 26/12/2018 14:07

43 I had a Boxing Day FD last year for exactly the same reason as you - felt like I needed it. Few sensible (ish) days for me now probably - keeping to 16:8 definitely helps

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/12/2018 22:00

Wow bcf you are so comitted. ...

Well, that fd went to shit Blush oh dear, stomach feels even worse now! Will try again on the 29th. ..

Hockneypool · 27/12/2018 07:44

Merry Christmas everyone

Congratulations Maz on you 5:2aniversary - most impressive and very inspiring

No quite the BCF full work out but have done some yoga and have gone for a walk everyday. Trying to keep to 16:8 for now.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/12/2018 11:13

16:8 and light exercise is a good plan, hockney especially with no snacks between meals.

43 That might help you today, so you & your tum are ready for tomorrow

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