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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 29/11/2018 21:47

Please can I join? I've been trying, unsuccessfully, to lose weight for a while. I feel like a fat blob and my clothes don't fit. I need to be accountable to someone.

Borris · 29/11/2018 22:28

You’re in the right place @faron This thread Is so supportive and reading about others experiences really helps.

@emcla I’m sure bcf has some advice re constipation. I can’t remember it but I’m sure she’ll be along and advise soon Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/11/2018 06:17

Welcome emcla and faron
I think advice for constipation is usually stay away from products that are meant to help as they are often counter productive?
But as borris says bcf will be along to advise. .. in the meantime make sure you drink lots of water. Good luck both Smile

Farontothemaddingcrowd · 30/11/2018 06:39

I weighed in at 11.2 this morning. I will weigh in every Friday.

Farontothemaddingcrowd · 30/11/2018 06:40

First fast day on a Friday. I'm vegetarian as well so don't know if that makes It more difficult.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/11/2018 07:18

Read the OP faron it recommends weighing in first thing after your second FD

Others might be able to advise re: veggie diet, it might make it more difficult on FD as for me personally, protein tends to keep me felling fuller, so eggs might be your friend??

Weigh in today and still no whoosh although I've lost 1lb from last week, but this still only takes me back to the lowest I've been on this WOL - yet i'm feeling slimmer and looking slimmer and clothes are looser - I don't bloody understand!!! Sad argh, its doing my head in that my scales are stuck at 11.11!

Anyway, hope others weighing in today are successful, good luck to friday fasters Smile

Notreallyhappy · 30/11/2018 07:25

I hear you 43 no loss on scale this week but look slimmer and jeans have baggy bits.
Hi to the new comers.
Irt constipation my gastro Dr says if it's blocked drink plenty but reduce fibre till it clears...no point adding more cars to a blocked motorway Grin
Yesterday a mini was ok. Came in about 800 so half of what tdee is..It's got to help long term.
Have a good day everyone xx

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 30/11/2018 08:00

43, hope your tummy feels better today! I got distracted by someone at work so wound up not eating until I got home for dinner. Probably for the best! Keep going - you’ve lost last week’s gain, so maybe next week will be your week! Don’t let the sad step get you down.

Welcome emcla and faron! emcla, there’s an article in the Guardian today about constipation, which advises putting your feet on something while you poo - claims it creates the perfect evacuation! Word of warning though - losing 9/10lbs by New Year is v ambitious! 5:2 generally produces a loss of about a pound a week. Don’t get disheartened if it takes a little longer!

Good luck today, Faron!

Well done on yesterday’s mini, NotReally!

Kitchen closed on 547 yesterday, and I have crept a tiny tiny bit further down on the scales to 11.1 exactly. So close! AF has arrived as well, which might explain yesterday’s dizziness.

quackingduck222 · 30/11/2018 08:12

NotReally - Well done on your mini.

Cheddar - I hope your fast went well. Yes, got almost all of the wardrobe finished. 3 hanging rails to go up today then it’s finished. It’s amazing what you can do with some contiboard track and sliding doors.

Boys - Well done on your B2B.

LoudHouse - Welcome to the thread. How are you finding it? That’s a fantastic loss in your first week.
I sometimes do long fasting periods for example I have my tea 6pm and then sometimes go to 6pm the next evening before eating especially on FDs as I only have one meal. Some days it’s a absolute breeze others my mind wanders and craves things usually about 4pm so I have a hot drink and that usually helps.

StirCrazy- You should we could have a sewing club. I really need to pick mine back up again I made a pattern and it doesn’t look right so back to the drawing board for me.

BCF - This is the 3rd wardrobe I’ve helped with the freearm weights have definitely helped, managed to get everything up the stairs with no issues this time. I’m learning wallpapering soon too, I wanted to learn to become handy so I don’t have to rely on others for things.

Cheddar - I hope your feeling better today. Is this a regular thing for you? I used to get it quite often at the beginning and used to carry a protein bar in my bag just Incase and had ham & cheese in the fridge so I could just grab it if needed.

Emcla- Welcome to the thread. Good luck for your first FD.

Faron - Welcome to you as well, this is a great thread. I find it really does help me keep myself accountable rather than going it alone. Good luck

43 - Have you done your measurements? I think you really should as it sounds like you are loosing inches.

I think all the scales have conspired against us, I’ve STS all this week 0.8 over target so I’m very happy but it’s a bit unsettling as there has been no movement at all and that’s unheard of for me.

emcla · 30/11/2018 08:30

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice. Feeling fine so far ! Good luck to all Friday fastest Smile

emcla · 30/11/2018 08:30

I meant fasters !

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/11/2018 09:18

I think you might be right quacking I'm trying my hardest to not get fixated on the numbers, especially between now and xmas. And unfortunately I never measured myself at the start, but i'm defitinely getting smaller, I'm even getting a collarbone, hip bones and ribs well when i lie down anyway Grin

well done on your mini not, is that mini in addition to your 2 FDs??

cheddar thanks, it is better today, well done on creeping ever closer to the 10s Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 30/11/2018 09:47

Well done on your b2b, 43
I hope your tum is better today

It aounds like you are losing bodyfat, if your shape is changing, so the scales should catch up soon.

Well done on your mini, NotReally
Yes, it will have helped you progress

Welcome, emcla, faron 🙂

Most people have a higher initial loss the first 2 weeks, then settle down to about 1lb weekly on average
However, those with a few stone to lose may keep losing at 3-4 lb weekly for several weeks
If you are already within healthy BMI, then progress is usually slower than average

faron These support threads often help people value themselves more, too
because feeling better about yourself can help to make better choices

You may have put on a bit, but noone is ever a "blob" - it may be a cliche, but do try to be kind and respectful to yourself, just as if you were talking to your best friend

Don't worry, 5:2 / IF works for all kinds of food preferences: Mediteranean / veggie / vegan / low carb / paleo .....
What really helps:

  • On FDs, no alcohol or sugary junk whatsoever

  • On NFDs, keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits, NEVER snack / graze between meals,
sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks

emcla I recommend drinking plenty of water for constipation - fizzy crap may not be as good, so try to boost water
Start each day by glugging down a glass of water and keep water with you all day

As pp have said - unless prescribed by your doctor - avoid taking fibre supplements etc and don't start adding bran etc to your diet.
This is because all that can often block you up even more

Well done on your SV, cheddar any loss is good round totm

With totm, you are probably retaining at least a lb of water
but keep drinking water - your body needs it to burn fat efficiently

Avoid the totm munchies and you should see a little whoosh after totm ends, as the 1st FD afterwards usually releases the excess water.

Good luck, faron and all the otherFriday fasters 🙂 !
I'm on FD2 of my b2b
Who else is fasting ?

OP posts:
Larasshadow · 30/11/2018 10:08

I've not been well this week so didn't manage a FD. Not really over eaten other than a couple of days. Weigh in day today and I have gained 2.5lb but I'm not unhappy with that as I expected it to be a lot more.
Hopefully I'll be feeling better soon and get back on it.

emcla · 30/11/2018 10:19

Thank you so much bigchoc. I will drink more water. It’s only when I do 5 2 that i get constipated. So upping the water !

Boysmomma · 30/11/2018 11:02

Morning all! TFIF! Kitchen closed at 833. So 2 successful FD (I think) I'm finding it easier and easier (famous last words right!). Normally I'd have all my treats lined up for after a successful FD and today, nah, just not feeling it. Long may it last! On the plus side The Toy Show is on tonight so our house has the tree up, fire set up and hot chocolate and marshmallows at the ready Grin

Hi @loud! Welcome aboard, TOTM is hard but you sound like you're coping really well!

I know @stir I don't see a church from one year to the next but theirs something beautiful about them! Especially this time of year! I also appreciate the problem with the womanly shape, although mine is slightly more padded! I seem to be losing weight from my calf and ankle, my tummy is still pudgy Grin

@BCF I mentioned to my mum what happened and joked about the wet-suit, she mentioned mine is still in the attic from when I used to surf! Wish I hadn't given away my board, that used to keep me toned! Although it does have me thinking, the Christmas morning surf used to be my favorite, I think that's my aim for next year!!!

@Cheddar I hope you're feeling better! I hate that feeling, you had a great day though!

@43 at least it's over now, but well done for powering through! I've given up during hard days before, especially when I need comfort. Your whoosh will come! Great that you're seeing the change, have others noticed?

Hi @emcla and @faron!

Well done on yesterday Not!

@Quacking can you come to mine and help Grin sorry you're STS, that's so frustrating!

Good luck Friday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/11/2018 11:55

Lara I hope you feel fit again soon 💐
Don't fast if you don't feel well enough
and never fast with a fever or with D & V

In the meantime, aim for healthy TLC / maintenance:

  • Boost water
  • Boost nutritional food like veg, beans, peas & lentils, to help support your immune system and healing
  • No junk, especially sugary crap or booze, because they actually slow down recovery

That's good progress, boys, that you no longer crave junky treats after your FDs

Where the fat is burned first is largely genetic, but also dependent on hormonal balance

To target the waist, cut right back on alcohol & sugary food, because those kind of exess calories are particularly prone to be stored around the waist.

They switch your body from fat-burning- which you probably do on NFDs too, between meals - to fat storage

Alcohol especailly stops all fat-burning for hours, until the liver has finished processing all the toxic byproducts

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/11/2018 12:13

Well done on your FD, boys
Maybe hint that you'd like a surfboard under the tree 😏 - it sounds a brilliant sport that used to really work for your fitness & shape

Don't worry, duck Your Happy Weight is a pretty low BMI
and I've mentioned before that I think you'd find it easier & less stressful to keep within a slightly higher range
i

OP posts:
Notreallyhappy · 30/11/2018 13:21

Goodness this thread moves fast....
43 the mini was an extra I did b2b mon/Tues.

Stircrazyschoolmum · 30/11/2018 14:21

Happy Friday fasters! I've had nothing but coffee so far today but I'm already daydreaming about dinner!

43 and quacking could you be replacing fat with muscle? I think muscle weighs more and it would account for looking slimmer/more toned whilst not seeing the scales move. I also think that totm is imminent for quite a few of us which would cause water retention (Is it possible for a virtual group to synchronise?!)

cheddar and lara I hope you are feeling better, lots of yucky bugs around at the moment.

Welcome to our newbies... you are right Not the thread is moving quickly... we will need a new one soon!

emcla · 30/11/2018 17:24

Hi all. Just broken my fast with 2 scrambled eggs and smoked salmon. Savored every mouthful. Have drank lots of water and some tea with skimmed milk. Felt fine all day. Felt quite energetic in fact!

Farontothemaddingcrowd · 30/11/2018 19:26

So I had chick pea and spinach curry in a tomato based sauce in the canteen at work. They served it with chips which I didn't eat. Then one naughty mulled wine at the Xmas fair. Hoping that will be under 500 cals.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/11/2018 21:24

b2b finished (Î do 800 FDs for maintenance)

I had a lovely foot massage and I did 30 minutes cardio & light weights at the gym
I've also cycled nearly 35 km today

  • I've done that every day this week, due to schedule changes and errands, so the cycling was split up into 4-5 parts
OP posts:
Notreallyhappy · 01/12/2018 08:52

Stir....muscles doesn't weigh more it's more dense so smaller, taking up les room per lb. X

BigChocFrenzy · 01/12/2018 09:06

If you are losing inches, but not weight, that is likely to be due to muscle increasing, or becoming denser

Intermittent Fasting can improve body composition - the ratio % muscle : % bodyfat - even without increasing exercise.
This is more noticeable in men, but can occur in women too

This is very positive for shape - more toned, less flabby
also for fitness and health - more muscle improves many risk factors, as does less fat

However, if there is still excess fat, then actually reducing weight may require fewer calories on NFDs / fewer feast days.

  • and the same recommendation if for several weeks you are not losing inches either
OP posts: