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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Kapoww · 01/12/2018 09:46

Hi all,
I’ve been lurking for a week so it’s time I say hi! I started 5:2 this week with Mon/Wed FD. So far so good! I want to lose a stone to get back to my pre-kids size, but I’m also really keen on the health boost.
My husband and I watched the Horizon programme the other night and he expressed an interest in the health benefits too. He definitely doesn’t need to lose weight though as he is slim already due to running approx 100km a month. His father had a heart attack in his 40s though and, DH has a lot of work pressure and borderline cholesterol readings in the past. Does anyone know if he can adopt 6:1 or similar and maintain his weight but still get the health benefits?

quackingduck222 · 01/12/2018 10:43

43 - Well no time like the present, grab a measuring tape even a metal one will do. On the weeks you show little loss on the scales try measuring really does help the motivation on seeing the inches disappear.

Lara - Hope you feel better soon, look after yourself.

Boys - Well done for your FD. That’s great your finding it easier, soon it will just become ingrained and the new normal. Hope you enjoyed your hot choc and marshmallows.

Thanks BCF, not worried about the scales just found it strange they have had absolutely no movement this week normally I fluctuate a lot over the week. Finally gained a pound this morning, at least I know the scales are not broken now.

StirCrazy- hope your FD went well.

Emcla - well done, sounds yummy.

Faron - That sounds like a great lunch.

BCF - 35k bloody hell, you are a machine.

Kapoww - Welcome to the thread, well done on your first two fasts this week, how did you find them.
Hopefully BCF will be along to answer about your DH but to me 6:1 sounds good.

Is anyone fasting today? I’m thinking of going for a mini.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/12/2018 13:28

Welcome, Kapoww 🙂 and well done on your 1st FDs
Those of us on maintenance still fast for the health benefits, as well as weight
The health benefits - principally clearing out old cells for renewal - have been shown to kick in even with very mild fasting.

Fasting systems for your DH

  • He could do 6:1 with an 800 FD and on the NFDs eat a bit more - add reasonably healthy stuff, not junk - to maintain his weight.
  • Or 5:2 with 2 miniFDs of 1000 -1200 cals, eating more on NFDs

If he doesn't fancy reduced calorie days:

  • He could try 16:8 or 14:10 some days, to have an eating window of 8 or 10 hours only i.e. skip either breakfast or supper and increase size of the other meals.

I recommend Additional healthy measures:

  • Obviously if he smokes, STOP
  • Cut out all snacking between meals. Have any "treats" as part of a meal. He probably needs 4 meals daily.
  • Do daily 12:12 on days he doesn't do 16:8 - this has been shown to bring health benefits i.e. only eat within a 12-hour window, e.g. 7:30am - 7:30pm, no late snacks
  • Keep to NHS alcohol limits: no more than 2 glasses per day, with 3 days per week free from alcohol
  • Drink plenty of water and cut right back on fizzy drinks, including diet ones - keep as only an occasionall treat.
  • Avoid late eating. Research shows that eating after 8pm tend over time to increase the rate of CVD, high BP and strokes
  • Cut right back on junk food, especially sugary or deep-fried food, incl crisps, pizza, takeaways etc
  • Boost veg - aim for 7 portions daily plus 1-2 portions fruit
  • Boost beans, peas, lentils, also natural yoghurt
  • Boost all types of fish and reduce the amount of red meat, especially processed meat
  • Move to whole-grain or less processed carbs, e.g. wholegrain / wholemeal bread, brown / red rice, porridge oats (not the instant flavoured kind), quinoa. Have boiled / baked spuds instead of mash
  • Crosstrain his upper body - Add a couple days per week of lifting weights - increasing muscle (within reason) is associated with increased longevity
OP posts:
HLBug · 01/12/2018 14:26

duck I'm also going for a mini today. So far had some smoked salmon and eggs for lunch. Not sure yet what's for tea. Had a junky hungover day yesterday so a bit of light relief today is very welcome.

Happy December everyone and hello to the newcomers, you're very welcome here Smile

Kapoww · 01/12/2018 16:16

@BCF Thank you so much! That’s really helpful!

Well it looks like I’m starting with a 4:3 instead of 5:2 as I had an event at my kids school all afternoon and I decided to just keep busy and avoid the hot dogs. Now it’s 4pm and I haven’t eaten since breakfast so I might as well keep it going. I think I’ll end up around 700, I’m considering it a bonus. Smile

Next week back to 5:2. I’ve been quite careful on NFDs this week but next week I have a few meals out so it will be interesting to compare results.

I quite like the FD though! Miso soup is my friend.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/12/2018 19:15

Excellent idea to grab a serendipitous FD, Kapoww

How are your miniFDs going, duck, bug ?

OP posts:
HLBug · 01/12/2018 19:37

Kitchen closed at about 700 for me BCF so I'm declaring that a FD and not just a Mini. Actually couldn't finish my dinner as I was so full Shock probably because I drank a good "starter" of water beforehand.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/12/2018 20:32

Well done, bug

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 02/12/2018 16:34

Hi guys, quick check in on a work break - on b2b today and tomorrow, currently on 257 after lunch and making a chickpea curry for tea. Ye gods, it's cold! Luckily am so busy with work no time to eat Grin

Excellent fasting yesterday, team!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2018 18:18

Good luck, harriet
Hot drinks help keep you warm on FDs,
e.g. Bovril (10 cals) or tea / coffee, preferably unsweetened & without milk

OP posts:
Notreallyhappy · 02/12/2018 19:29

Fd thrown in today as an experiment, never Sunday fasted before. It's a keeper. Had early dinner last night then later Sunday roast minus the potatoes at 2.30. Kitchen will close at about 700 so b2b tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/12/2018 20:08

Well done on your FD, NotReally and good luck for tomorrow
A weekend FD is usually even better than a weekday one, because it cuts down on possible weekend indulgence
So now you know you can do it, while still enjoying a family roast

OP posts:
cakegoblin · 03/12/2018 07:18

Wow, just catching up on the thread - so many new people, hi all! And so many successful FDs. Perfectly timed comment about weekend indulgence BCF - we have been entertaining so the less said about mine the better! And I have to say I am really looking forward to my B2B today/tomorrow. Need to give my body a rest! Am also a bit constipated and loving the analogy about cars and motorways Grin. For once I have lots of batch-cooked food for the family from the weekend so am planning on skipping along to m&s to find a similar-looking ready meal for each dinner. Any other B2B'ers?

quackingduck222 · 03/12/2018 08:05

Bug - How did your mini go on Saturday?

Kapoww - Well done on your fasts. Is that 3 you’ve done in your first week? Sometimes the best FDs are the last minute ones.

BCF - Yeah my mini went alright, I did get thrown of course when I went to make tea and had absolutely no veg in the fridge but I made it work.

Bug - Well done on your impromptu FD that’s excellent.

Harriet - Hope your first day of your B2B went well yesterday, and good luck for today too.

NotReally well done on your first Sunday fast. And good luck for today. I love a weekend fast/ mini keeps me on track and my head out the fridge.

Cake - You will be in good company today lots of posters now do B2B on Mondays. Hope it goes well for you.

I’m planning a good week as I have a big meal out Thursday.

Good luck to all the fasters today.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/12/2018 08:18

morning everyone and well done to bug harriet notreally and all the other weekend fasters Smile

I'm here to confess to an absolutely awful weekend food and drink wise and to hang my head in shame... I feel horrid today, bloated and huge and disgusting! but line firmly drawn under it.... I'm not going to dwell

Aiming for a good NFD today then fd tomorrow and Friday this week

BigChocFrenzy · 03/12/2018 12:00

Well done on your mini, duck

Move on, 43 Don't worry about it.

As you see, some of us have found that a weekend FD can really help cut back on weekend sabotage
Do you fancy trying that this weekend, to avoid undoing your good work during the week ?

Good plan, goblin
I now find, after indulgent meals out, I really look forward to a b2b or an FD

Good luck to all the Monday fasters 🙂

OP posts:
Kapoww · 03/12/2018 12:35

I’m in today! So far so good.

@quackingduck222 Yes that’s three in the first week although one was more of a mini. Smile

It’s now TOTM though so I’m guessing that could slow it all down this week.

Who else is fasting today?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/12/2018 14:00

I'm going to have a fri FD bcf, I do this quite often and I enjoy waking up on a Saturday not feeling like I've overdone anything Smile

purplefig · 03/12/2018 14:47

Like 43 I've had a very indulgent weekend. Don't regret a moment of it, it was a very special occasion! Back on the FD bandwagon today. Had a coffee and a few herbal teas today and having a black bean stir fry with some Linda McCartney pulled 'chicken' this evening. That'll come in at around 470 cals. And the best part is - after such a hedonistic weekend, I'm not even hungry yet!!

visitorthedog · 03/12/2018 15:12

Hello everyone, after a disastrous few days (ok, a week!), I’m back on a fast day, holding on by the skin of my teeth and holding off on weighing myself 😳

Hope everyone else is having a good day!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/12/2018 17:36

Welcome back, visitor
Stay focused - not long to go now 🙂

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/12/2018 17:42

Sounds delic, purple

Good plan, 43

Best to ignore scales around totm, Kapoww

Most women gain 1-8 lb during totm, because the hormonal changes cause water retention.
Don't worry, the first FD after totm normally all releases that water
Keep drinking water though, avoid the totm munchies and you should see further progress afterwards

OP posts:
emcla · 03/12/2018 19:11

Fd here too. I find I have way more energy when fasting and I don’t need as much sleep too. Anyone else notice improvements in energy levels?

harriethoyle · 03/12/2018 20:08

@kapow @visitor @em @purple - FD fast bumps!

Just INHALED tonight chickpea curry and broccoli. It was like something David Attenborough would narrate Grin.

Kitchen is closing on 609 after 511 yesterday - happy with that! Next FD is Weds and planning a b2b with Thurs.

Farontothemaddingcrowd · 03/12/2018 20:20

Chickpea curry sounds delicious.

I'm going to have my second fast day of the week tomorrow. I'll do another on Thursday as well because I've really overeaten this past couple of days, so want to reset the balance.