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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
emcla · 03/12/2018 20:37

Well done Harriet and all fasters today. I’m here drinking warm water.

HLBug · 03/12/2018 21:36

FD for me tomorrow - I'm writing it down so it will happen Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/12/2018 21:41

Well done all you fasters Smile

Nfd of 1600 here (tdee is just over 1700) so very happy with that. Fd#1 tomorrow. I absolutely love how this WOL is changing my relationship with food, if I'd had a really bad weekend on one of the many other 'diets' I have been on in the past then that would have been it, I'd have given up and sodded it all off. Now I know I can have 2 good fds and really limit any damage / gain I might have incurred... love it!! Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 03/12/2018 21:57

Well done, Harriet, Emcla

and that's a good NFD, 43 you're right back on track
Many of us have found 5:2 has changed longterm habits.

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 03/12/2018 22:26

Exactly what I think @fortythree it makes me so much relaxed! Have been within a kilo of current weight for 6 months now, with not much effort at all. I really need to be more mindful on my nfds to get the last 3kg off!! But I'm having too much fun Grin

quackingduck222 · 04/12/2018 07:44

43 - Glad to see you’ve drawn a line under it, absolutely no point in beating yourself up about it. Hope you have a great week.

Kapoww - That’s a cracking first week, well done. When is your weigh in day? Also if you haven’t make sure you take down your measurements too.

Purple - Glad you had a good weekend, hope your FD went well.

Visitor- Hope your FD went well too.

Emcla - Yes definitely for me I’ve scheduled my FD on cleaning day, I’m like a mini whirlwind full of beans.

Harriet - Haha that’s so funny. Well done on your fab FD.

Faron - Good luck for your FD today.

Bug - Yep, definitely FD for you now. Hope your day goes well.

43 - It’s amazing isn’t it. My mantra is anything can be undone with a good poop and a good FD. Sometimes I think it’s too good to be true but it really does work.

Has anyone else found themselves drinking more lately? I swear since the hearings gone on I’m drinking a lot more than usual.

Hope everyone has a great FD.

Farontothemaddingcrowd · 04/12/2018 08:02

I always drink a bit more around Christmas.
Right. FD today. I can do this!

Farontothemaddingcrowd · 04/12/2018 08:02

Good luck to all fasters today.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/12/2018 08:14

ha ha faron I do too but it tends to be Wine and Gin Grin

Yes quacking a good poop and a FD can work wonders Grin

Got a skinny vanilla latte to see me through this mornings' meetings, then a subway chicken salad for lunch with a 10cal jelly. Unsure yet what's for tea, will see what's in, but possibly a mushroom omelette and side salad or some green beans.

High five faron we've got this FD today Smile

harriethoyle · 04/12/2018 08:32

Good luck Tuesday fasters!

harriethoyle · 04/12/2018 08:33

And yes @quacking I definitely feel like boozing more in the winter. Not least because as soon as it gets dark, it feels like gin and tonic time then I realise it's only 4.30pm..! Grin

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 04/12/2018 10:41

Oh gosh, I can't keep up!

Well done yesterday goblin, NotReally, Kapoww, emcla, purple, visitor and harriet - sorry if I've missed anyone!

Good luck today, 43, faron and duck and anyone else! I'm fasting today too.

I have also been a bit lavish at the weekend after a very good week - Mon-Fri I ate carefully inside TDEE on NFDs and completed two FDs. Then on Saturday and Sunday I didn't precisely throw all caution to the wind but I did come in at least 500 calories over TDEE on each day. What really upset me was that I could have been much worse - it didn't seem like that much extra food for being so far over my limit! I also seemed really hungry yesterday although I eventually came in just 170 calories over TDEE. Oh well. It's probably partly the Christmas effect of everyone else seeming to be eating and drinking merrily with impunity; partly AF (which seemed to start on Thursday night but then trailed off to nothing again over the weekend, only to restart today, grr!); and partly exhaustion on Sunday after a very busy day.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 04/12/2018 10:41

Yy duck, I keep wanting Baileys in hot chocolate!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/12/2018 10:43

Keeping within NHS alcohol limits, even at weekends and on nights out, is often key to breaking a plateau, or maintaining easily at goal.

Good luck, Tuesday fasters !

OP posts:
Notreallyhappy · 04/12/2018 10:44

Morning...
Reporting in..b2b ok sun / Mon... bit higher yesterday 800 but did have 19 hour fast.

quacking drinking is my downfall it would happen every night but only allow 3 wine clocks a week.
Have a good one all

BigChocFrenzy · 04/12/2018 10:47

cheddar Treats and feast food are usually calorie bombs and also spike insulin levels, so they are not filling for the calories they contain.

What helps - and is part of longterm healthy habits - is always having a few veggy sides and being sparing with creamy / oily sauces, gravy, mayo
And of course drinking lots of water, instead of gulping wine with every course

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/12/2018 10:53

Cross fingers for me tonight, bug, duck
I've a Christmas dinner - at the same restaurant and with the same group of friends as in February,
when I fell down the stairs and bust my ankle ligaments !

To make it even madder, I'm the one who organised the event and chose the venue 😳
because the food is so good, with a huge menu and loads of veggy options for my veggy colleague.

I'll take the lift coming down !
(for those who don't know me, I'm a very fit lifelong exerciser, but I have significant visual & hearing disabilities)

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/12/2018 12:01

oh dear, good luck bcf definitely get the lift!!! enjoy the food though Smile

Farontothemaddingcrowd · 04/12/2018 13:24

I swear I didn't cave to the free work lunch today because of this group. I feel accountable!

Borris · 04/12/2018 13:33

Enjoy your meal bcf. I’m fd today and Friday this week which is unusual for me. But dd had teacher training day yesterday so didn’t want a fd with her around. I think I will struggle on only 500 cals but hey ho

harriethoyle · 04/12/2018 18:32

@notreally I'm exactly the same. Have to consciously ensure I don't casually reach for delicious malbec every night!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/12/2018 19:05

I confess too Wine

Fd finished on 550cals, got a cracking headache though :-(

Well done faron

borris I often have a Fri Fd and I'm doing one this week, they're not that bad (honest!) Wink

How have all the other Tues fasters got on?

Farontothemaddingcrowd · 04/12/2018 20:03

I had a spoonful of granola, dry, one small choc (33 cals) and 5 falafel balls at about 250 cal. Reckon I've had about 450 cals today. Hungry, but feel good for fasting today.

Hope the food is good bcf . I'm a veggie too, so I always appreciate when people consider the vegetarian options at a restaurant for me.

fortythree I hope your headache eases soon. Can you get an early night?

BigChocFrenzy · 04/12/2018 20:35

My Xmas dinner was gorgeous and lovely friends for company
I didn't go arse over tits down the stairs (used the lift !) and I'm safely home
Absolutely stuffed, so a light day tomorrow

I've my usual cycle into town for an early meeting, 8 km there, 8 km back
then I'll try a new Body Styling course at the gym, do some walking, chill and another 8 km each way for a short afternoon wrapup discussion at work

Well done on your FD, 43

Did you remember to glug down a teasp of Marmite during the day ?
That can help avoid headaches because it replenishes salt & minerals that might be low on an FD; it also boosts B vits

That's excellent , faron It is very tempting to gobble free food, but few of us are actually lacking food in our normal lives
Yes, many of us find that posting here helps stay focused and to resist sudden temptation

Also, as some folk here know, I have spy drones that I set hovering high over the shoulder of every 5:2er.
Big Choc is watching YOU ! 🛰 😏

harriet My spy drone checks too for anyone exceeding NHS alcohol levels 👁

How's your FD going, Borris ?

Friday FDs are very useful, as many people start the weekend on Friday evening, so it can help keep weekends in balance

OP posts:
snailhunter · 04/12/2018 20:55

slinks back in Well, my fasting plans for November went totally tits up! Work was insane and on top of that, my body decided that as it hadn’t had a period in four months, it would clearly make sense to have three in one month! Cheers, body! And that meant being exhausted, headachey and in no good space for fasting physically or mentally.

So this morning I was 10st 3 - 4lb off happy weight. Bah. No idea if weirdo peri menopause nonsense is responsible for that but hey ho. I’m going to sort it out before it gets higher. Back on FDs tomorrow! See you all then!